Panasonic TH-65PF9UK (1080p) is coming...

[RichB]

Yes, there is a Commercial 1080P panel and is called the TH-65PF9UK.

The release date is October 2006. I have no other information, but if it comes my way I will forward it. I know many of us prefer commercial panels, so now you now about how long to wait.

The source is reliable and anonymous, of course ;)

- Rich

[madshi]

Thanks!

Do you have any information about which formats HDMI will accept? 1080p60? 1080p50? 1080p24?

[R Harkness]

Thanks Rich. Good to have it finally confirmed. I hope the new 1080p Panny panels live up to their promise. I'm still a little iffy about the new gen 720p models, from what I've seen.

[Suzook]

sure make me salivate :) I wonder if my wife would notice the difference with a swap out. "gee honey I the picture was great before but now its even better what did you do? um..........

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]Thanks!

Do you have any information about which formats HDMI will accept? 1080p60? 1080p50? 1080p24?[/QUOTE]

Nope. Nothing yet. The marketing information is not available.

It may be some time. I understand other 9'th gens should be rolling out in July. Maybe we can learn something from them.

- Rich

[madshi]

[QUOTE=RichB]I understand other 9'th gens should be rolling out in July.[/QUOTE]
You mean the 1080p 50" and 58" models? :D

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]You mean the 1080p 50" and 58" models? :D[/QUOTE]

Nope ;)

But who it would be a good sign to see if they are supporting more rates. Especially, 1080P/24 for us U.S. types.

I still think that we are unlikely to see native rate support on HDMI. God knows why not.

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Suzook]sure make me salivate :) I wonder if my wife would notice the difference with a swap out. "gee honey I the picture was great before but now its even better what did you do? um..........[/QUOTE]

Honey, there was a problem. The tech had to come an upgrade the frame :)

- Rich

[optivity]

[QUOTE=Suzook]sure make me salivate :) I wonder if my wife would notice the difference with a swap out. "gee honey I the picture was great before but now its even better what did you do? um..........[/QUOTE]I just upgraded my three month old m7350n HP PC... swapping out a 300 watt power supply, GeForce 6200SE video card and RGB cable for a 500 watt power supply, Radeon® X1900 graphics card and DVI-D cable to the tune of ~$550. :eek: Is the picture now rendered on my Gateway FPD2185W 21" Widescreen High-Definition LCD Flat-Panel Display any better??? Maybe. :rolleyes: Was it worth it??? Perhaps not. :mad:

But knowing you "Suzook..." you'll have the 1st TH-65PF9UK on your block. :D

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]Thanks!

Do you have any information about which formats HDMI will accept? 1080p60? 1080p50? 1080p24?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I have no information here. I think we will have to see. My guess is that native rate will be a DVI option only, which I think is a tragedy.

1080p/25/25 would be absolutely awesome. Of course, if they did that, what would be my excuse 2 years from now :p

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=R Harkness]Thanks Rich. Good to have it finally confirmed. I hope the new 1080p Panny panels live up to their promise. I'm still a little iffy about the new gen 720p models, from what I've seen.[/QUOTE]

Consumer panels are not for me.

Apparently, all who saw the 103" say it was absolutely stunning so the 65 should be fantastic. I hope they improve the grayscale and dark area processing.

BTW, Rumor has it the 103" MSRP is over 70K so forget about that unless you recently won the lottery :rolleyes:

- Rich

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=RichB]Sorry, I have no information here. I think we will have to see. My guess is that native rate will be a DVI option only, which I think is a tragedy.

1080p/25/25 would be absolutely awesome. Of course, if they did that, what would be my excuse 2 years from now :p

- Rich[/QUOTE]

I'm up to speed on the native rate thing (just read a hundred messages about it this weekend). Maybe madshi can weigh in, but it seems to be a HDMI blade thing. So perhaps a new board design will resolve the issue.

[mkoesel]

TH-65PF9UK

So I wonder what the "F" stands for.

I believe WD is "wide display" and HD was "high definition". Or something close to that anyway (I know, I know its in the FAQ). Perhaps it is for "Full", as in "Full 1080p".

[assJack1]

Oh yeah, thanks Rich B. Appreciate your efforts!

[orogogus]

Nice to hear more about the new must-have AV toy. :)

Maybe we'll know more about inputs when the other 9th commercial gen panels are out. Not having 1080p inputs over HDMI would be a tragedy. It seems to me if Panny as a company is releasing a new HDMI 1.3 AVR and a 1.3 enabled 1080p out Blu-Ray player in September, they should be able to add in real 1080p support to their flagship panel via HDMI... (hopefully 1.3 although this isn't critical for a display at this point in time)

[RichB]

[QUOTE=orogogus]Nice to hear more about the new must-have AV toy. :)

Maybe we'll know more about inputs when the other 9th commercial gen panels are out. Not having 1080p inputs over HDMI would be a tragedy. It seems to me if Panny as a company is releasing a new HDMI 1.3 AVR and a 1.3 enabled 1080p out Blu-Ray player in September, they should be able to add in real 1080p support to their flagship panel via HDMI... (hopefully 1.3 although this isn't critical for a display at this point in time)[/QUOTE]

Don't the 60 and 600 accept 1080P via HDMI? If so, hopefully, the Commercial/Broadcast panels will do so as well. NR DVI will definitely be there for 60Hz folks. 1080p/24 would be great since we will see this coming from BD/HD DVD players as well as HD capable scalers.

The devil is in the details ;)

- Rich

[John P.]

[QUOTE=RichB]
It may be some time. I understand other 9'th gens should be rolling out in July. Maybe we can learn something from them.

- Rich[/QUOTE]

-As in for instance a TH-50PHD9 1366x768 model?

[zaracsan]

Many thanks Rich, for passing along this little tidbit, and aything else that may follow. I too, would rather have the Commercial Panny; and with only a few months longer to wait than for the Consumer 65, I'm hoping the wait will be tolerable. <sigh> I never thought I could hold out this long; especially now, that I have audio gear stacked like cordwood in the guest bedroom. Waiting is not easy for me, but I think watching NR 1080p from Blu-Ray discs will make any suffering endured, very quickly forgotten. :)

[RichB]

[QUOTE=zaracsan]Many thanks Rich, for passing along this little tidbit, and aything else that may follow. I too, would rather have the Commercial Panny; and with only a few months longer to wait than for the Consumer 65, I'm hoping the wait will be tolerable. <sigh> I never thought I could hold out this long; especially now, that I have audio gear stacked like cordwood in the guest bedroom. Waiting is not easy for me, but I think watching NR 1080p from Blu-Ray discs will make any suffering endured, very quickly forgotten. :)[/QUOTE]

Hang in there :)

I can tell you that watching HD DVD's on my 657UY looks awesome and it can only get better with a 1080P display.

- Rich

[RichB]

Here is a link to the 9 series for Hotels. (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=97546&catGroupId=32751&surfModel=TH-42PG9U&displayTab=R) . They have speakers but the circuitry and internals will be similar to the commercial (Broadcast) panels. The broadcast bezel and frame will look like the 8 series.

Thanks again anonymous ;)

- Rich

[notanewbie]

I bought my 658uk about 6 months ago and I was on the fence for weeks about pulling the trigger knowing that the 1080 65 incher was right around the corner.

Im glad I didnt wait because every week a new release date comes out about this thing. I heard May and June, then Aug/sept now i hear October. Chances are that it wont even be out by christmas so had i waited iw ould have had nothing.

Point I am trying to make is that those of you waiting for the 1080 65 Panny might not want to wait and buy one of the 1366 units. Besides that, who on earth knows how much it will cost? I know what it costs in japan but, its also available in japan so, neither applies to the US market.

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=notanewbie]I bought my 658uk about 6 months ago and I was on the fence for weeks about pulling the trigger knowing that the 1080 65 incher was right around the corner.

Im glad I didnt wait because every week a new release date comes out about this thing. I heard May and June, then Aug/sept now i hear October. Chances are that it wont even be out by christmas so had i waited iw ould have had nothing.

Point I am trying to make is that those of you waiting for the 1080 65 Panny might not want to wait and buy one of the 1366 units. Besides that, who on earth knows how much it will cost? I know what it costs in japan but, its also available in japan so, neither applies to the US market.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but your wrong on a number of points.

The release dates never changed. The consumer has always been "...end of summer..." (Summer ends Sept 22). The commercial has been Sept/Oct. The cost target of each, although not announced, has always been reported to be less than $10k. (A mistake on another web site led to rumors - but was cleared up after a day).

Sounds like sour grapes on your part. Sorry that you couldnt wait and bought a soon to be old model.

[Elemental1]

[QUOTE=assJack1]Sounds like sour grapes on your part. Sorry that you couldnt wait and bought a soon to be old model.[/QUOTE]

Yeah....as soon as the new unit hits the streets his PQ will really bite. :p

[markjmills]

Thanks, Rich -- it's great to hear news like this before the presses even begin to warm up. :-) This news, however, puts me in a quandary. Like most here, I have a strong preference for the industrial models. BUT -- that two year IN-HOME consumer model warranty is looking mighty good with a screen this size. A 42" or 50" I can wrestle into my car by myself and schlep to a service center (babying it every step of the way, of course). But a 65"-er? D*mned awkward to move, even with a gaggle of buddies rounded up before beer-o'clock...not to mention the cost of the rental van that transporting this monster would dictate. So I'm thinking that it might be worth lesser menu access, unused cr*ppy speakers, and a somewhat tacky bezel to gain in-home service, especially with a first gen 1080p. Am I making too big a deal of valuing much more convenient service?

~Mark~

[notanewbie]

If you think the 1080 version of the 65" Panny will be under 10k then it is you who will be wrong on the most important point..price.

No sour grapes here, technology is always moving forward, 6 months later its not here and even if it is here in October (another 5 months) (unlikely) I had 11 months of joy and the price of the 1080 might very well be so high that I wouldnt/couldnt have afforded it and would have waited for nothing.

Well see.

[RichB]

The commercial panel usually costs a wee bit less than the consumer version. In that case, less than 10K. But you are right, we shall see.

- Rich

[assJack1]

@notanewbie: This is not the thread to be jelous about pulling the trigger too early whiling moaning and lamenting about owning the 8uk. It's way off topic.

@markjmills: Don't fret, if you buy the 9uk Panny will still give you in home service. (You'll want it especially with a 65"). There were a few indepth threads about this over a year ago. I'm too busy to search right now (maybe later) but give it a try - or call Panny directly to confirm.

[Suzook]

Ok who wants to buy a slightly used and wonderfully calibrated 658U in October :)

[R Harkness]

Suzook,

Have you grabbed an HD-DVD player yet? If so, any comments about it as paired with your mighty fine 658U plasma?

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Suzook]Ok who wants to buy a slightly used and wonderfully calibrated 658U in October :)[/QUOTE]

I have never had a problem locating a buyer. After all, it really does sell itself.

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=R Harkness]Suzook,

Have you grabbed an HD-DVD player yet? If so, any comments about it as paired with your mighty fine 658U plasma?[/QUOTE]

I had mine and it really looks fantastic. Anyone who cannot see the difference really needs an optical tune-up :)

- Rich

[Larry Hutchinson]

I sure hope these puppies look better than the 37PX-60U I saw in Best Buy yesterday. It was by far the worst picture in the place with cartoonish clay face effects. Probably due to vivid mode or somesuch but I can't understand how Panasonic can have any mode that looks that bad.

Would hate to order a 65" on-line at $10k and see at home what I saw at BB.

But I guess the commercial models are more tweakable than the consumer versions and that would be a pluss.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Larry Hutchinson]I sure hope these puppies look better than the 37PX-60U I saw in Best Buy yesterday. It was by far the worst picture in the place with cartoonish clay face effects. Probably due to vivid mode or somesuch but I can't understand how Panasonic can have any mode that looks that bad.

Would hate to order a 65" on-line at $10k and see at home what I saw at BB.

But I guess the commercial models are more tweakable than the consumer versions and that would be a pluss.[/QUOTE]

Not to worry. Vivid mode is responsible due to the ACG (automatic gain control). It will create clay face at any contrast level. Black level extension and Color Management all seem to do much much more harm than good. Just this stuff off and the picture looks great.

- Rich

[plazman]

[QUOTE=Suzook]Ok who wants to buy a slightly used and wonderfully calibrated 658U in October :)[/QUOTE]

I'll definitely be interested, if you are serious :D

[optivity]

[QUOTE=Suzook]Ok who wants to buy a slightly used and wonderfully calibrated 658U in October :)[/QUOTE][quote=plazman]I'll definitely be interested, if you are serious :D [/quote]:eek:

I tried to sell my PX50U with a post on this thread... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=683176) but the moderator "deleted" it because I did not include a :D

[Elemental1]

[QUOTE=optivity]:eek:

I tried to sell my PX50U with a post on this thread... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=683176) but the moderator "deleted" it because I did not include a :D[/QUOTE]

Oh just like they deleted my avatar but leave others ;)

[optivity]

[quote=Elemental1]Oh just like they deleted my avatar but leave others [/quote]

;) and what I wonder is... could "plazman's" offer be serious? :p

[QUOTE=plazman]I'll definitely be interested, if you are serious :D[/QUOTE]

[Suzook]

Rich H indeed I did latch onto a HD-DVD and I must say I am down right impressed. Player quality of the TOSH STINKS in general but the PQ is amazing. I will also be in the BR camp as well.

[Suzook]

when.......they do release it and I can justify (and send my wife away for a long weekend to swap it out) I will let those of interst know through the proper channels. :)

[assJack1]

RichB,

Your the new Captain Pike. Feed me Seymour ...


;)

[plazman]

[QUOTE=optivity];) and what I wonder is... could "plazman's" offer be serious? :p[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah! I was originally planning on a 58 inch, but if a 65 could be had for a close enough price :D

My wife who used to be a 'zero' in AV matters is now starting to take interest and worst of all she is becoming a commercial panny 'fangirl'. She been inviting her friends to check out the new panny 8UK and the HD DVD player - just crazy :eek:

[DavoM]

RichB - Thank you for the link. Looking over the specs on that 42" is interesting. Glad to hear that the bezel will be like the 8U. If the 9UK is gonna hang on my wall, I want it to look as sharp as possible.

Am I right in concluding that the 9U is not a 1080p display?

Peace,

DM

[RichB]

[QUOTE=DavoM]RichB - Thank you for the link. Looking over the specs on that 42" is interesting. Glad to hear that the bezel will be like the 8U. If the 9UK is gonna hang on my wall, I want it to look as sharp as possible.

Am I right in concluding that the 9U is not a 1080p display?

Peace,

DM[/QUOTE]

The Panasonic TH-65PF9UK is a 1080P display. All other 9 series are Not 1080P, they are the same resolution as the 8 series.

- Rich

[Ein]

[QUOTE=Larry Hutchinson]I sure hope these puppies look better than the 37PX-60U I saw in Best Buy yesterday. It was by far the worst picture in the place with cartoonish clay face effects. Probably due to vivid mode or somesuch but I can't understand how Panasonic can have any mode that looks that bad.

Would hate to order a 65" on-line at $10k and see at home what I saw at BB.

But I guess the commercial models are more tweakable than the consumer versions and that would be a pluss.[/QUOTE]

The clay faces are mainly due to low bit rate. I noticed them even in OTA HD broadcasts. But, when I hooked up a HD DVD to it. They are not there anymore and the gradients are much smoother.

[Trunorth]

Larry - Turn off Color Mgmt move if off of Vivid setting problem solved. PQ also compromised by poor signal sources in B&M stores. Panny PQ still leads the industry, unbeatable value, the new 58 sizing, and the forthcoming 65 in 1080p in both consumer/commercial applications makes this an exciting time for plasma fans.

[John P.]

I'm mostly interested in the TH-50PF9UK, as the 65 will be too expensive for my book I'm sure.
Any idea when the 50" will hit the street? Around September? Or is it possibly closer.
-I guess perhaps I'm asking the wrong forum, 'cause I'll have to wait for the European release, which may be much later than the US one...

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Ein]The clay faces are mainly due to low bit rate. I noticed them even in OTA HD broadcasts. But, when I hooked up a HD DVD to it. They are not there anymore and the gradients are much smoother.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps but less likely. Vivid mode defaults to ACG (Automatic Gain Control) on unless you turn it off with the advanced settings. You can prove this by enabling the advanced settings. Set all of the at default. Turn off ACG. Now watch the source toggling Advanced Settings On and Off.

- Rich

[Techniwizard]

[QUOTE=John P.]I'm mostly interested in the TH-50PF9UK, as the 65 will be too expensive for my book I'm sure.
Any idea when the 50" will hit the street? Around September? Or is it possibly closer.
-I guess perhaps I'm asking the wrong forum, 'cause I'll have to wait for the European release, which may be much later than the US one...[/QUOTE]

All 9U non-1080P models are due out in July. All models will be HD except for the 42 inch which will be available in SD and HD flavors. In other words, 37 inch SD version is discontinued (AFAIK)

T Wiz

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]All 9U non-1080P models are due out in July. All models will be HD except for the 42 inch which will be available in SD and HD flavors. In other words, 37 inch SD version is discontinued (AFAIK)

T Wiz[/QUOTE]

That's interesting. I have to buy a 50 and have it by the 3'rd week in July, any chance I get get a 9 series?

- Rich

[Techniwizard]

[QUOTE=RichB]That's interesting. I have to buy a 50 and have it by the 3'rd week in July, any chance I get get a 9 series?

- Rich[/QUOTE]

I would give it a 75% chance. You could check with the big dealers like VA, DVDT, TVA and maybe pre-order ? Add a cancellation clause if not delivered by a certain date, etc.

TW

[optivity]

Any chance this panel will have a 2-way CableCARD?

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]All 9U non-1080P models are due out in July. All models will be HD except for the 42 inch which will be available in SD and HD flavors. In other words, 37 inch SD version is discontinued (AFAIK)[/QUOTE]
Do you know whether there are any 1080p models planned besides the 65"? Maybe a 58" 1080p?

Thanks!

[John P.]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]All 9U non-1080P models are due out in July. All models will be HD except for the 42 inch which will be available in SD and HD flavors. In other words, 37 inch SD version is discontinued (AFAIK)

T Wiz[/QUOTE]

Wow, thanks - that's great news! I've sold my old plasma already, and am now watching TV on my computer screen... If the 9 series will be out in July / early August, I may be able to hold out. :)

[DavoM]

Does anybody make a 1080p 65" plasma right now, consumer or commercial? NEC? Anybody?

Peace,

DM

[Larry Hutchinson]

[QUOTE=Ein]The clay faces are mainly due to low bit rate. I noticed them even in OTA HD broadcasts. But, when I hooked up a HD DVD to it. They are not there anymore and the gradients are much smoother.[/QUOTE]

Not in this case. Another plasma, a Pioneer, was showing the same feed and did not show the problem.

[Techniwizard]

[QUOTE=optivity]Any chance this panel will have a 2-way CableCARD?[/QUOTE]

Very doubtful. The consumer group probably, Broadcast ? I don't think so.

[Techniwizard]

[QUOTE=madshi]Do you know whether there are any 1080p models planned besides the 65"? Maybe a 58" 1080p?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Nothing definite through early 2007, but of course that could change.

[hotwire]

Will there be a 58" 768P commercial model released in August?

Thanks
Kenny

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=DavoM]Does anybody make a 1080p 65" plasma right now, consumer or commercial? NEC? Anybody?

Peace,

DM[/QUOTE]


Nope.

That is why all this hub-bub is great news.

[DavoM]

I thought so. Can't wait until the comercial version comes out in October.

Peace,

DM

[Bushman4]

1080P is sure to be BETTER than current new 9th generation PDP's. However the price makes it a bit prohibitive. A year down the road price will be MUCH cheaper, more 1080P
content should be available and the 2nd generation most probably will have better features as well as less kinks.

If you want to be the first on your block to own it and have the $$$$$$$( I believe the MSRP is $9999.) then it's worth buying.

[Techniwizard]

[QUOTE=hotwire]Will there be a 58" 768P commercial model released in August?

Thanks
Kenny[/QUOTE]

Don't think so, only 37, 42, 50, and 65 HD models and a 42 SD model.

[optivity]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]Very doubtful. The consumer group probably, Broadcast ? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]Right... brain cramping here. Maybe the 2007 1080p consumer panels will be equipped with two-way CableCARD slots. I'd like to get a Tivo Series 3 and ditch my SA8300 once and for all... however, by next year I may be a Verizon FiOS customer as they have run fiber down my street a couple of weeks ago, which opens up a whole new set of scenarios. :) Only 200 feet from my house... so close & yet... still so far.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]Don't think so, only 37, 42, 50, and 65 HD models and a 42 SD model.[/QUOTE]

So there will be both: a 1080P and 768p 65?

- RIch

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=optivity]Right... brain cramping here. Maybe the 2007 1080p consumer panels will be equipped with two-way CableCARD slots. I'd like to get a Tivo Series 3 and ditch my SA8300 once and for all... however, by next year I may be a Verizon FiOS customer as they have run fiber down my street a couple of weeks ago, which opens up a whole new set of scenarios. :) Only 200 feet from my house... so close & yet... still so far.[/QUOTE]

That's a great idea with Tivo S3. I've been hating my 8300HD lately too.

[tomboyter]

T-Wiz (or Anyone with the Juice),

Will the 768 9UK's have the same number of grayscale steps and the same bit depth as the consumer sets? If so, that would be a retreat from the 8UK in terms of grayscale steps anyway...and wouldn't that mean that the 9Uk would be more susceptible to "clayface" or banding, or false contouring?

[tomboyter]

Beuler? ... Beuler? ... T-Wiz? ...

[AppliedVisual]

[QUOTE=tomboyter]T-Wiz (or Anyone with the Juice),

Will the 768 9UK's have the same number of grayscale steps and the same bit depth as the consumer sets? If so, that would be a retreat from the 8UK in terms of grayscale steps anyway...and wouldn't that mean that the 9Uk would be more susceptible to "clayface" or banding, or false contouring?[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure if anyone knows yet.... I'm going for a 65" 1080p panel, but I'm usnure if I'll do the 600U or wait until the 9UK arrives. I occasionally work with Panny's high-end pro video cameras and I've asked my contacts at Panasonic's broadcast division about the 9UK panels. So far they don't have any specs or info either.

I'm inclined to believe that the 9UK models will use the 9th gen panels, but hopefully will have superior gradation to the 600U consumer models. Just as the 8UK was an 8th gen. panel like the 50U/500U models, but was superior. Now I think this will be the case for the 720p/768 line panels. The 1080p panels are a whole different animal and all we can do is speculate. And while we know the pricing for the 65" 600U model, I don't think official pricinf for the 9UK model has been announced yet. This will impact a lot of people's purchase decisions... I'm straining the budget planning for the 600U as it is and a panel that size and price would also be hard to justify in most commercial installations too. If the 9UK version is much more than the 600U, then my decision will (unfortunately :( ) be an easy one.

I briefly saw a demo 65" 1080p display a few months ago at one of Panasonic's traveling pro-video events. I'm not sure which model it officially was, but I'm assuming it was the 600U or the Japanese market equivalent. The picture was stunning to say the least. I don't know if it really had any better color or contrast than the 8UK 65". Video from the Varicam HD camera looked excellent on it as it did on a 768p 50" 8th gen panel they had. But Varicam is native 1280x720... When they flipped over to another DVCPROHD source that was 1080i, the extra detail was very visible on the 1080p panel. The bad part about all this is that nobody could actually get their hands on any of this stuff and it was rather crowded. I could only gawk and drool at the 65" panel as others in line behind me pushed me forward so they could do the same. But the 65" 1080p panel stole the show even though it was the other cameras and new gear that most of us originally came to see.

[Techniwizard]

OK lessee here.....

Yes, there will be a 720p and 1080p 65 incher.

Yes, 9UK specs will be similar to the consumer 60/600 units, exactly ? unsure.

Same glass ? yes - 9 series

As for the clayface etc, don't know until we see one.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]Yes, there will be a 720p and 1080p 65 incher.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info!

Honestly, I don't like that there will be 2 models. Why? Because that can only be bad for the price, I think. The 1080p model in Japan came at half the price of the older 768p model. Why can't we simply have the same world wide? Then we don't need the 768p model, anymore.

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=madshi]Thanks for the info!

Honestly, I don't like that there will be 2 models. Why? Because that can only be bad for the price, I think. [/QUOTE]

Yep. My first thought too: "Uh-oh..."

[assJack1]

But still the reported price of the 1080p even by Putman is $10k - so I think nothing has really changed yet. Infact, the 768p 65" model may come in at a lower price point than it is now making it more affordable to people. Right now I don't see this (two 9uk's) as a bad thing.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=assJack1]But still the reported price of the 1080p even by Putman is $10k - so I think nothing has really changed yet. Infact, the 768p 65" model may come in at a lower price point than it is now making it more affordable to people. Right now I don't see this (two 9uk's) as a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
I do see it as a bad thing. Just look at how cheap the 1080p model in Japan is. Would it be that cheap, if there was a 768p model below it? Surely not. $10k is ok, but the price could be cheaper than that. In Japan the 1080p model was cheaper than $10k last November already! Why should the US pay more in fall 2006 than Japan payed in fall 2005? That's not how Plasma prices usually work! Aren't Plasmas in Japan usually more expensive than in US?

[Elemental1]

Hmm...let's see here: Panasonic can't make plasmas fast enough and you are expecting them to give price breaks on the latest and greatest? ;)

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=madshi]I do see it as a bad thing. Just look at how cheap the 1080p model in Japan is. Would it be that cheap, if there was a 768p model below it? Surely not. $10k is ok, but the price could be cheaper than that. In Japan the 1080p model was cheaper than $10k last November already! Why should the US pay more in fall 2006 than Japan payed in fall 2005? That's not how Plasma prices usually work! Aren't Plasmas in Japan usually more expensive than in US?[/QUOTE]


Panny can be using thier old line for the 768p display and bring in those panels at a reduced rate. The new line for 1080p would come in at last years prices. The commercial 768p display is probably comming off the consumer 768p line minus the electroncis. What is wrong with this?

[madshi]

@Elemental1, yes, you got it... :D

@assJack1, do you find it right that US fall 2006 prices are higher than Japan fall 2005 prices?

[assJack1]

Sorry, I don't follow Japanese prices so I can't comment. All I am poitning out is that Panny probably doesnt have the capability of outputting all their 65" lines at 1080p. So prior to them retrofitting the ones that can't, they will offer a 768p 9uk line. Then in a one to two years the 768p line gets an upgrade an those are phased out. This makes the most economical sense.

[Elemental1]

Yes, maybe the 768p models are just defective 1080p's :p
Waste not, want not. :D

[DavoM]

I'm sure it will be a simple firmware update. :D

Peace,

DM

[R Harkness]

FWIW, just phoned a local A/V store. The consumer version of the 1080p model is listing at around $15,000 CDN, matching what I was told from another store. These guys say arrival in September for that consumer model.

I can only hope that the industrial 9UY version will be cheaper, and that I won't have to wait to excruciatingly long until it can be found at a sane price.

[DavoM]

So that is over $13K in US dollars. Ouch!

I will be waiting until October for the industrial version.

Peace,

DM

[John P.]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]All 9U non-1080P models are due out in July.
T Wiz[/QUOTE]

-If they are out in July, shouldn't we start hearing something official from Panasonic about these models pretty soon?

[skanter1]

[QUOTE=RichB]The Panasonic TH-65PF9UK is a 1080P display. All other 9 series are Not 1080P, they are the same resolution as the 8 series.

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Do you know anything about the in/out functionality of the 9 series, as in HDMI or more inputs, or will it be the same as the 8 series industrials?

Thanks...

[notanewbie]

I will say it again (and again and again)

Pete putman and everyone else is dead WRONG and the MSRP on the 1080P 65" plasma will NOT be $10k or less, it will be more..significantly more. In the $13-15,000 range.

Keep that in mind when deciding on a 1080 or 768 65" Panny.

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=notanewbie]I will say it again (and again and again)

Pete putman and everyone else is dead WRONG and the MSRP on the 1080P 65" plasma will NOT be $10k or less, it will be more..significantly more. In the $13-15,000 range.

Keep that in mind when deciding on a 1080 or 768 65" Panny.[/QUOTE]

Is that your opinion, or can you tell us where you got that information?

Thanks.

[tonydeluce]

[QUOTE=notanewbie]I will say it again (and again and again)

Pete putman and everyone else is dead WRONG and the MSRP on the 1080P 65" plasma will NOT be $10k or less, it will be more..significantly more. In the $13-15,000 range.

Keep that in mind when deciding on a 1080 or 768 65" Panny.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info - I feel a great deal better informed now...

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=notanewbie]I will say it again (and again and again)

Pete putman and everyone else is dead WRONG and the MSRP on the 1080P 65" plasma will NOT be $10k or less, it will be more..significantly more. In the $13-15,000 range.

Keep that in mind when deciding on a 1080 or 768 65" Panny.[/QUOTE]


Niether of us know the MSRP. But, I will tell you why I believe your wrong and do hope that you provide credible support to your argument.

We can forget the many insider reps whispering in folks ears about the price tag, or even the reports in PopSci, CNET, and Putman. Lets set those aside for now. If you go back to this press release from panasonic:

Panasonic Affirms Its Industry-Leading Position With Introduction Of 2006 Plasma Line-Up
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryList?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&catGroupId=30693


Just plot the price per diagonal inch for all the data provided. Extremely linear. Now if you fit a trend line to this data a 65" hits, very nicley at $10k - just like all the rumors suggest.

What is your counter argument?

[RichB]

[QUOTE=skanter1]Do you know anything about the in/out functionality of the 9 series, as in HDMI or more inputs, or will it be the same as the 8 series industrials?

Thanks...[/QUOTE]

I believe we are looking at the 3-slot design like the 9 series Hotel (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=97546&catGroupId=32751&surfModel=TH-42PG9U&displayTab=R) series.

- Rich

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=RichB]I believe we are looking at the 3-slot design like the 9 series. series.

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Any idea whether they will replace the fixed VGA port with something more modern such as DVI or 1080p-and-native-res-capable HDMI?

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=notanewbie]I will say it again (and again and again)

Pete putman and everyone else is dead WRONG and the MSRP on the 1080P 65" plasma will NOT be $10k or less...[/QUOTE]

Did Putnam explicitly state MSRP for his quote? I thought he was throwing out street prices?

IMHO this thing (the 65" 9UK) will street at or near $10k at release. Current model was about $10k out the door when it hit, now around... well I won't say it but you can check forum sponsors. Now the 65PX600 (which is really what Putnam was referring to if we wish to be accurate here) might come in a bit higher of course. But, then that is the topic of a different thread.

As for this 768p 65" 9UK, expect it to come in around or below the price of the current 768p 65" 8UK. MSRP might be a touch lower but I'll bet street prices are nearly dead even. This is of course provide this model really does exist. I'm not doggin anyone's info, I just remain a bit skeptical. Not that I am saying it makes no sense -- just that it does not seem like the most efficient use of resources. But what the hell do I know about plasma glass fabrication? :)

[RichB]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]Did Putnam explicitly state MSRP for his quote? I thought he was throwing out street prices?

IMHO this thing (the 65" 9UK) will street at or near $10k at release. Current model was about $10k out the door when it hit, now around... well I won't say it but you can check forum sponsors. Now the 65PX600 (which is really what Putnam was referring to if we wish to be accurate here) might come in a bit higher of course. But, then that is the topic of a different thread.

As for this 768p 65" 9UK, expect it to come in around or below the price of the current 768p 65" 8UK. MSRP might be a touch lower but I'll bet street prices are nearly dead even. This is of course provide this model really does exist. I'm not doggin anyone's info, I just remain a bit skeptical. Not that I am saying it makes no sense -- just that it does not seem like the most efficient use of resources. But what the hell do I know about plasma glass fabrication? :)[/QUOTE]

Here is the article by Peter Putman: Panasonic’s 2006 Digital Lifestyles Show (http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/panasonic2006.html)

Edit: Ironically, the 65 display is showing an HD DVD Trailer :)

[dsmith901]

Panasonic may try to recapture the good old days of huge plasma markups when first introducing their 1080p displays, but that won't last long considering market price pressure from ever larger LCD panels at ever decreasing prices. Those who can remain patient for a year or so will be greatly rewarded IMO, with a large ~60" 1080p plasma going for as little as $6K or less by 2008.

[hoodlum]

The 9UK's were just announced and no mention of the 65". :confused:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=97639&modelNo=Content06062006025717579&surfModel=Content06062006025717579

[tangfoot]

[QUOTE=hoodlum]The 9UK's were just announced and no mention of the 65". :confused:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=97639&modelNo=Content06062006025717579&surfModel=Content06062006025717579[/QUOTE]

Damn. They didn't move MSRP one cent on the 50".

[DavoM]

no mention of the 65".
That concerns me.

Peace,

DM

[madshi]

The displays utilize no fans and provide quiet operation.
That sounds good. Hopefully they've also worked on reducing the buzzing?

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=hoodlum]The 9UK's were just announced and no mention of the 65". :confused:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=97639&modelNo=Content06062006025717579&surfModel=Content06062006025717579[/QUOTE]

Ouch. Is this silence a bad sign? Time will tell...

[tomboyter]

The technicals sound just like the consumer series...16 bit processing sounds like a step up but the number of grayscale steps remains below the 8UK. Do any of you think that the 8UK might just be better at eliminating false contouring than the 9UK?

[zaracsan]

It is too soon to draw any firm conclusions from such press releases. Who knows if Panasonic is just being coy and has plans of creating a bigger splash with newest flagship 1080p commercial panel, and they don't want to diminish the impact by mixing non-full HD displays in with the 1080p official release? Pure speculation here; but maybe they are going to surprise the market and have a 58" 1080p to go along with the 65" display (despite the report here to the contrary), possibly with the intention of stealing the thunder of the Pioneer 50" 1080p rollout? Yes, only time will tell for sure; which is darn little relief for the impatient lot of us that read these pages!

[RichB]

[QUOTE=tomboyter]The technicals sound just like the consumer series...16 bit processing sounds like a step up but the number of grayscale steps remains below the 8UK. Do any of you think that the 8UK might just be better at eliminating false contouring than the 9UK?[/QUOTE]

The specs for the 7 and 8 series were 2048 on analog inputs and 4096 on digital.
That said, I have used the DVI and there is room for improvment. 16 bit processing is better than the 12 bit used before so there should be an improvement.

Until we get one there is no way to really gage the performance. DVE has a gray ramps pattern. DVD's have less than 256 shades and I know with the 7 series they were not perfectly smooth.

My guess is it will be better.

- Rich

[RichB]

Here is some published specs for the TH-50PH9UK. It may answer some questions.

This should get some juices flowing :D

[assJack1]

RichB:

I get an error saying the file is corrupted. I don' think its me - can you check? Thanks.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=assJack1]RichB:

I get an error saying the file is corrupted. I don' think its me - can you check? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

It opened fine for me.

[assJack1]

Thanks...its me then....

[RichB]

[QUOTE=assJack1]RichB:

I get an error saying the file is corrupted. I don' think its me - can you check? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

I was able to download and open it. I am using Adobe Reader 7.0.

- Rich

[mkoesel]

Based on that spec sheet, the 9UY is bringing very few new features to the table. Nothing in here about 1080p support over HDMI or DVI. Now, of course, the 1080p commercial model is not announced yet, but even the non-1080p consumer models will accept 1080p input over HDMI.

Perhaps a 1080p capable HDMI board is forthcoming with the 1080p 65" model.

[RicheyPoor]

[QUOTE=assJack1]Thanks...its me then....[/QUOTE]I got the same corrupted file message.

[zaracsan]

[QUOTE=RicheyPoor]I got the same corrupted file message.[/QUOTE]

You might want to try right clicking on the attachment and seeing if you can open it in a new window.

[madshi]

DVI and HDMI blades stay the same, also the supported resolutions seem to stay the same. That means:

- no 1080p support whatsoever
- no native rate support on the HDMI blade
- native rate support on the DVI blade only for 60Hz, but not for 24Hz/48Hz nor 50Hz
- still fixed VGA input, would have prefered fixed HDMI instead

I find that quite disappointing. Let's just hope that the 65" 1080p model will have much *MUCH* better HDMI input capabilities. Otherwise it's born dead for me. Pioneer has shown how to do it right with their FHD1. It accepts native rate (1080p) over HDMI with 24Hz, 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz. It even accepts YCbCr 10bit, I believe.

[Techniwizard]

Rumors from the birdee.....

Confirming what most of you have already heard, that there in fact will NOT be a 720p 65 inch 9 series model, only the 1080p model due out in October.

Like the wife is always the last to know.....

TW

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]Rumors from the birdee.....

Confirming what most of you have already heard, that there in fact will NOT be a 720p 65 inch 9 series model, only the 1080p model due out in October.

Like the wife is always the last to know.....

TW[/QUOTE]
Phew - thanks! That makes me more hopeful for good pricing! :)

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Techniwizard]Rumors from the birdee.....

Confirming what most of you have already heard, that there in fact will NOT be a 720p 65 inch 9 series model, only the 1080p model due out in October.

Like the wife is always the last to know.....

TW[/QUOTE]

Great news. Now if only 1080P 24,48 or 72 as well as 1080P/60 were accepted via DVI or HDMI, there would much rejoicing.

- Rich

[madshi]

[QUOTE=RichB]Great news. Now if only 1080P 24,48 or 72 as well as 1080P/60 were accepted via DVI or HDMI, there would much rejoicing.[/QUOTE]
Don't you dare to forget mentioning 50Hz - or else I'll come for a visit and make some nasty scratches on your 65PHD7!!

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]Don't you dare to forget mentioning 50Hz - or else I'll come for a visit and make some nasty scratches on your 65PHD7!![/QUOTE]

Oops. It will not happen again :D

By all means, 25 and 50HZ!

- Rich

[madshi]

:D

[assJack1]

Ok, it's been a month. I know the consumer version PR is picking up steam - you start to see it advertised on more websites and other places.

Does anyone have any new tid bits to reporton the 9uk?

Someone toss us a bone...

[hdtvdinner]

I got nothing really but I did call Panasonic last week. The person I spoke to asked his manager after I harassed him for a while. Manager had no specifics. He said anywhere from mid July to early September.

[RichB]

Some information from a reliable and anonymous source:

There is a press release about the 103" 1080P.
...

The TH-103PF9UK can display 1080/60p/50p, 1080/60i/50i/24p/24sF/25p/30p, 1080/50i, 720/60p/50p 480/60i/p, and 575/50i/p video signals.

That may bode well for the 65. There appears to be a new DVI card
that supports 1920 x 1080 native resolution with 16 bit processing.

The 65 has the new 10000:1 contrast ratio.

- Rich

[R Harkness]

Thanks Rich!

"The 65 has the new 10000:1 contrast ratio."

Yeah. I kept seeing that contrast number on sites advertising the upcoming 65" 600U model. Since the Panny 65 1080p models were originally omitted from the increase in contrast (being an "old school" 3000:1 like my old ED plasma), I wondered if those sites were just grabbing specs numbers from the other smaller 600U line models.

So I shot Panasonic an email about it and received a confirmation that the 1080p 65" models coming here have the new rated contrast of 10,000:1

Nice to hear.

Boy, it was last fall we learned this beast was on the way! This is truly a lesson in patience.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=RichB]The TH-103PF9UK can display 1080/60p/50p, 1080/60i/50i/24p/24sF/25p/30p, 1080/50i, 720/60p/50p 480/60i/p, and 575/50i/p video signals.[/QUOTE]
That's *very* nice, especially if the 65" is supporting all that, too.

[QUOTE=RichB]That may bode well for the 65. There appears to be a new DVI card
that supports 1920 x 1080 native resolution with 16 bit processing.[/QUOTE]
Huh? 16bit processing? That happens to match the highest DeepColor color depth of HDMI 1.3. Maybe it's a trick solution to get DeepColor working without needing HDMI 1.3 chips? But then how does the DVI chip handle the needed double bandwidth?

:confused:

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=madshi]But then how does the DVI chip handle the needed double bandwidth?

:confused:[/QUOTE]

Me thinks this...

It didn't say it will take in 10, 12 or 16 bit data. It only states that it can process using 16 bits. This comes in handy even for 8 bit data and helps eliminate round-off errors.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=assJack1]Me thinks this...

It didn't say it will take in 10, 12 or 16 bit data. It only states that it can process using 16 bits. This comes in handy even for 8 bit data and helps eliminate round-off errors.[/QUOTE]

Sound good to me. Also, there are no sources including HD DVD and BD that have the color depth in the source.

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=R Harkness]Thanks Rich!

"The 65 has the new 10000:1 contrast ratio."

Yeah. I kept seeing that contrast number on sites advertising the upcoming 65" 600U model. Since the Panny 65 1080p models were originally omitted from the increase in contrast (being an "old school" 3000:1 like my old ED plasma), I wondered if those sites were just grabbing specs numbers from the other smaller 600U line models.

So I shot Panasonic an email about it and received a confirmation that the 1080p 65" models coming here have the new rated contrast of 10,000:1

Nice to hear.

Boy, it was last fall we learned this beast was on the way! This is truly a lesson in patience.[/QUOTE]

Now they just need to start arriving ;)

- Rich

[zaracsan]

[QUOTE=RichB]Sound good to me. Also, there are no sources including HD DVD and BD that have the color depth in the source.

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Not yet. But as the Kevin Costner character in Field of Dreams heard a voice revealing to him that "If you build it, he will come"; the executives at Panasonic are similarly assured that by having the hardware in place to allow for v1.3's Deep Color spec to be utilized, it will allow for the source material that makes use of the technology to follow.

Hey, look over there; it's Shoeless Joe... ;)

[Tanquen]

[QUOTE=RichB]Sound good to me. Also, there are no sources including HD DVD and BD that have the color depth in the source.

- Rich[/QUOTE]

There must be some kind of limit to the color depth. With some of the manufactures talking about 1 billion or 3 billion or whatever displayable colors I have often wondered what the color depth is on DVD, HD or other digital content in the first place. Anyone know?

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Tanquen]There must be some kind of limit to the color depth. With some of the manufactures talking about 1 billion or 3 billion or whatever displayable colors I have often wondered what the color depth is on DVD, HD or other digital content in the first place. Anyone know?[/QUOTE]
Sure. Almost all digital media is encoded in 8bit YCbCr. Display are RGB, though. So there is a color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB needed - which isn't simple integer math. Furthermore when you process the image (deinterlacing, noise reduction, color collection, calibration, scaling) the image is further moved off the integer base. So there are some benefits in higher RGB color depth.

[Tanquen]

[QUOTE=madshi]Sure. Almost all digital media is encoded in 8bit YCbCr. Display are RGB, though. So there is a color space conversion from YCbCr to RGB needed - which isn't simple integer math. Furthermore when you process the image (deinterlacing, noise reduction, color collection, calibration, scaling) the image is further moved off the integer base. So there are some benefits in higher RGB color depth.[/QUOTE]

In YCbCr color space only 25% of the coordinates map to a visible color. So that would be only... hmm… Carry the one… 4 million colors????

[Suzook]

Ok so are these still due to arrive in October?

[RichB]

Here is the official press release for the 103 (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=98057&modelNo=Content07192006102223667&surfModel=Content07192006102223667).

- Rich

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=RichB]Here is the official press release for the 103 (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=98057&modelNo=Content07192006102223667&surfModel=Content07192006102223667).

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Do you know if the TH-103PF9UK you from your post yesterday will have similar availability?

Not that I am remotely in the market for one, I am just curious about the availability of the accompanying DVI board you mentioned.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]Do you know if the TH-103PF9UK you from your post yesterday will have similar availability?

Not that I am remotely in the market for one, I am just curious about the availability of the accompanying DVI board you mentioned.[/QUOTE]

Last I heard the 65 will be available in October.

- Rich

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=RichB]Last I heard the 65 will be available in October.

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Aha, but unless I've misunderstood or missed something, there is no guarantee yet that the 65's arrival will be accompanied by this new DVI board.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]Aha, but unless I've misunderstood or missed something, there is no guarantee yet that the 65's arrival will be accompanied by this new DVI board.[/QUOTE]

You are correct. I wish I had more information about that. When I do, I will post it :)

- Rich

[assJack1]

RichB throw us a bone here dude! Any little detail or information on this set would be greatly appreciated. Like a junky I need a fix...

[1920x1080]

Reuters: Matsushita steps up high-definition plasma TV drive (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompanyNewsArticle.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-07-19T093322Z_01_T332535_RTRIDST_0_TECH-JAPAN-MATSUSHITA-UPDATE-2-PICTURE.XML&rpc=66)Matsushita, the world's largest consumer electronics maker, plans to begin selling 65-, 58- and 50-inch models on Sept. 1 in Japan, and start taking orders for the 103-inch model on the same day.

It will launch the TV overseas soon after the Japan release, monitoring each region's potential demand for high-definition models.The Osaka-based company expects the 103-inch TV to sell for about 6 million yen ($50,000) each and the 65-inch model for around 990,000 yen.

[Ou8thisSN]

[quote= "Engadget"] You might have known it before by its nicknames: Goliath, Brobdingnag, the Colossus, etc. But now you've got a model number and price tag for Panasonic's 103-inch behemoth; call it the TH-103PZ600, and expect it out September first for a princely ¥6,000,000. Yes, that's over $51,000 US (which is what all plasmas used to cost but a few years ago, if you recall). Oh, and not that you'd care but Panny's also launching their 65-inch TH-65PZ600, 58-inch TH-58PZ600, and 50-inch TH-50PZ600 sets on the same date for significantly less (they top out at about $8,500 US). But really once you've seen the gaze of a 103-inch television, there's no way you can go back.

Update: Ouch! We've just received official word on pricing and availability for the US version of this behemoth, and neither will make potential customers very happy: not only will American home theater buffs have to wait until December to pick one of these models up, they'll have to shell out an eye-popping $70,000 to do so. [/quote]


so i'm quoting the engadget article that claims that the highest price for the TH-65PZ600 will be $8500 USD. if thats so, then its it can be assumed that the commercial SRP will be less than that. but then again Panasonic wants to sell the 103" in the US for a 29% premium over the japanese pricing.

if i applied a 29% price surcharge to the 8500$ of the 65" consumer, then it would be around 10.5k

do any of you think that they are only applying the pricing surcharge only on the 103" model?

[RichB]

[QUOTE=assJack1]RichB throw us a bone here dude! Any little detail or information on this set would be greatly appreciated. Like a junky I need a fix...[/QUOTE]

The specs on the new DVI baord support 1080P24, again from a reliable source.
That's it, I am fresh out of bones :D

It really looks like the new 65 is turning out to be everything that we hoped.

- Rich

[peakjunkie]

If I read the press release correctly, this means that Panasonic is going to launch 4 new 1080p plasmas (50, 58, 65 and 103) but they're not exactly clear about that.

If this is true, this will change things dramatically (along with commercial versions to follow).

IM

[erdega79]

only 65 and 103 are 1080p enabled :)

[bryananderson]

This Panasonic press release out today notes all 4 are 1080P and are due in Sept in Japan as different series numbers compared to those previously noted in thread.

Osaka, Japan - Panasonic, the brand for which Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. is known, today unveiled four new models in the PZ600 series VIERA plasma TVs. The new models, with screen size of 50, 58, 65 and the world's largest 103 inches, feature 1080p (progressive) high definition (HD) plasma display panels producing pictures at 1,920 × 1,080 pixel resolution. The four models support terrestrial, broadcast satellite and 110-degree CS digital broadcasts in Japan.

The 50-inch TH-50PZ600, 58-inch TH-58PZ600 and 65-inch TH-65PZ600 models will be available on the Japanese market on September 1. The 103-inch TH-103PZ600 will be built to order with sales scheduled to commence on September 1 and delivery to start from late September.

Mr. Shunzo Ushimaru, Director of Corporate Marketing Division for Panasonic Brand in Japan, said, "Our VIERA TVs have become synonymous with high-quality images and real life theater experience. We are proud to introduce the new 1080p VIERA lineup which brings home entertainment to new heights. The new TVs offer easy operation with the VIERA Link and the convenience of wireless multimedia connectivity via SD Memory Card."

"Since Plasma is a self-illuminating device, it offers superior characteristics on several measures including dynamic contrast, accurate color reproduction, quick response time for sports and programs with fast-moving images and a wider viewing angle. These features make the plasma panel an ideal device for a large screen TV. Our technological breakthroughs enabled us to develop and achieve mass production of 1080p HDTVs with 103, 65, 58 and 50 inch screens," said Mr. Ushimaru.

The new top-of-the-line VIERA 1080p HDTVs highlight Panasonic's prowess in technological development, production know-how and IC technology. For example, the new models incorporate the newly developed 1080p PEAKS (Picture Enhancement Accelerator with Kinetic System) plasma panel which achieves blacker blacks and a stunning 4,000:1 contrast in dark surroundings. To maximize the performance of the panel, the new 1080p PEAKS driver supports 16-bit image processing that produces razor-sharp motion pictures and displays 100 percent more shades of gradation than the previous model1). The images are so vivid and true-to-life that they can evoke emotion and feelings in the viewers.

The PEAKS system includes the new 1080p PEAKS Processor system LSI which is based on Panasonic's proprietary integrated architecture for digital consumer electronics. The new LSI incorporates the HD Optimizer that detects and reduces MPEG noise as it receives digital HD broadcast signals, producing crisp and clear images. The LSI also enables various features such as the Wide Intelligent TV Program Guide. Users can now browse, in one view, all the current and upcoming programs available on 19 channels for up to eight days (12 hours/day at a maximum). That makes it easy for them to search and record favorite programs.

The VIERA Link simplifies control of the home theater system. Using just one VIERA remote control, the user can command various HDMI-connected home theater components such as a DIGA DVD recorder2) or an AV amplifier3). The remote adopts universal design concepts making it easy to operate for the young and old. The new VIERA 1080p HDTVs have three slots for HDMI cables that support 1080p input.

The new TVs have an SD Memory Card slot for networking versatility with other SD-enabled devices. MPEG2 moving pictures shot with SD Video Cameras4) or JPEG still images (DCF format) stored on the SD Memory Card can be viewed on a large VIERA screen just by taking it out from a camera and inserting it directly into the slot. The new models further support the SDHC (SD High-Capacity) Memory Card.

Positioning the PZ600 series as the new flagship of VIERA TVs, Panasonic will continue to lead the large-screen flat display TV market which is expected to grow further worldwide.

1) TH-65PX500.
2) DMR-EX550, EX350, EX250V and EX150
3) SU-XR57 and SU-XR700
4) SDR-S200, S100 and S300

[R Harkness]

Zowee!

[bryananderson]

Looks like from below thread the middle ones will be MSRP in Japan US$8.5k & 7.3k

Type turn Size Resolution Actual sale price
TH-103PZ600 103 types 1,920×1,080 dot Approximately 6,000,000 Yen
TH-65PZ600 65 types 1,920×1,080 dot Approximately 990,000 Yen
TH-58PZ600 58 types 1,920×1,080 dot Approximately 850,000 Yen
TH-50PZ600 50 types 1,920×1,080 dot Approximately 600,000 Yen

[cajieboy]

NOW we're finally getting to the meat of matter! YEOWWW! Man, this what I've been hoping! The beat goes on...

[DreamCatcher]

I was wondering, why are commerical panels preferred by some?

dc

[Tanquen]

Blackish Monolithic design (display only), no speakers, lower price, input/output cards can be added and in some years the commercial even had extra features. I had a smaller consumer until I found out it had no per input memory settings while the commercial version did. Lame.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=DreamCatcher]I was wondering, why are commerical panels preferred by some?

dc[/QUOTE]

Also,

No Speakers (display only)
Blackish ;)

- Rich

[1920x1080]

Cleaner look (less bezel), typically more/finer user-accessible picture adjustment controls, typically can be driven at their native resolution, no need for tuner with <insert HD STB of choice>, no need for speakers with 7.1 audio system...

[cajieboy]

Also, may have better build quality and may have more heavy duty electronic parts.

[BruZZi]

... also :


Advanced Picture Settings - You can tweak the Picture a little bit more

Picture Size/Pos Control - You can adjust overscan

Screen Savers - The negative function is very useful for image retention.


.

[DreamCatcher]

[QUOTE=BruZZi]... also :


Advanced Picture Settings - You can tweak the Picture a little bit more

Picture Size/Pos Control - You can adjust overscan

Screen Savers - The negative function is very useful for image retention.


.[/QUOTE]
What exactly do you mean by "image retention" with the negative function?
Thanks

dc

[1920x1080]

The negative function would be useful for inverting the colors of a static display from time to time so the phosphors wear more evenly across the whole display. With moving, ever changing images, it might only be useful when accompanied by your favorite libation or drug of choice :D

[BruZZi]

[QUOTE=1920x1080]With moving, ever changing images, it might only be useful when accompanied by your favorite libation or drug of choice :D[/QUOTE]

http://planetsmilies.net/smoking-smiley-7579.gif :D

[assJack1]

Bruzzi -

You getting one of these too?

[BruZZi]

[QUOTE=assJack1]Bruzzi -

You getting one of these too?[/QUOTE]

assJack1, I live in a studio so I don't have enough space. :( :( :(

I'll be getting a Commercial 50" or 58" (1920x1080) - whenever they become available. :)

[ripclawsa]

Good luck, BruZZi.

BTW, can anyone here please update us on this new DVI blade from Panasonic? Thanks! And I wonder why they haven't released a new HDMI blade for the 65" (and the new 103") plasma.

OT here. BruZZi, down here in South Africa, the first 3 letters of your handle (Bru) is slang for "brother". Do people call you Bru for short?

[BruZZi]

[QUOTE=ripclawsa]Good luck, BruZZi.[/quote]Thanks ripclawsa :)

BTW, can anyone here please update us on this new DVI blade from Panasonic? Thanks! And I wonder why they haven't released a new HDMI blade for the 65" (and the new 103") plasma.
There should be a 1.3 HDMI Board Coming soon. Not sure when. :confused:

OT here. BruZZi, down here in South Africa, the first 3 letters of your handle (Bru) is slang for "brother". Do people call you Bru for short?
Cool. :)

I don't really have a nickname but many friends here in the US call me "G" as they don't like to pronounce my first name "Glauco". :D

[Rieper]

Has anyone considered a a Samsung 57-inch 1080p LCD? (http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/LCDTV/LNS5797DXXAA.asp)

Specifications:
Built-in digital tuner (ATSC)
S-PVA panel
CCFL-Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp
2 HDMI Inputs
1920(H) x 1080p(V) pixel resolution
10-bit processor with 12.8 billion colors
Fast 8ms response time
2 Tuner PIP
Widescreen aspect ratio
Audio Power: 15W X 2
R/F Input 2
HDMI in 2 (1080p/1080i)
Component (Y/Pb/Pr) in 2 (1080i/720p/480p/480i)
Composite video input 2 ea.
Sound monitor out 1
S-Video inputs 2 ea.
PC (RGB) Input 1

MSRP is $10K, but it is already in stock and shipping for a LOT less.

Right now I'm stuck between waiting for the Panny 1080p which should come out in November 06, or this Samsung 1080p. Unfortunately, there are no stores near me to check it out in person.

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=Rieper]Has anyone considered a a Samsung 57-inch 1080p LCD? (http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/LCDTV/LNS5797DXXAA.asp)

[/QUOTE]

I've seen the Sharp 57 inch outperformed by a Panasonic 58" plasma at 1/3 price (at least in Canada), playing the same material in the same room.

However, that is without tweaking picture controls, so the Sharp may well be able to perform better than what I saw.

[Ken Ross]

I'm surprised the Samsung is over 5" deep!

[GmanAVS]

[QUOTE=BruZZi]
I don't really have a nickname but many friends here in the US call me "G" as they don't like to pronounce my first name "Glauco". :D[/QUOTE]
Hey, I hear ya with that, nobody can say "Gianmarco" so am called "Gman"

btw, one of my best friends from Liceo Scientifico was Glauco Banna ! :) :)

[BruZZi]

[QUOTE=GmanAVS]Hey, I hear ya with that, nobody can say "Gianmarco" so am called "Gman"[/quote]
"Gman" is cool. :D

btw, one of my best friends from Liceo Scientifico was Glauco Banna ! :) :)
:) :) :)

[RichB]

I recently got a 509UK and it is really fantastic. The 10000:1 contrast ratio is due to a reduction in a 30% reduction in black level, a new type of phosphor, and drive current algorithm. I can tell you the black levels were noticeably darker.

Comparing the 509UK to my 657UY the new 9 series has:

- Improved black levels
- Brighter colors
- Redder reds, the 65 looks more orange, although not bad

Also, there was no fan noise and it ran cool.

The 65FP9UK shares the same specs, so this should be one hell of a panel. They appear to be still on track for October.

Start saving you money :D

- Rich

[DavoM]

Can't wait!!!!!!

Peace,

DM

[madshi]

@Rich, have you seen any disadvantage in the 9G, or do you only see advantages?

Do you plan to replace your 7G 65" with the 9G 1080p one?

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]@Rich, have you seen any disadvantage in the 9G, or do you only see advantages?

Do you plan to replace your 7G 65" with the 9G 1080p one?[/QUOTE]

I had four days to put it through its paces and I saw no problems.

Depends on my financial situtation, WAF, and finding a buyer for my 657UY.
I hope so ;)

- Rich

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=RichB]
Also, there was no fan noise and it ran cool...

- Rich[/QUOTE]

No fan on the 65"? Are you sure (with all the electronic processing and all)? If so that would great!

[madshi]

Thanks Rich!

[RichB]

[QUOTE=assJack1]No fan on the 65"? Are you sure (with all the electronic processing and all)? If so that would great![/QUOTE]

Sorry. I meant the 50. I did not hear any fan noise. There is some on the 65 but I do not notice it during viewing.

- Rich

[optivity]

[QUOTE=RichB]I had four days to put it through its paces and I saw no problems.

Depends on my financial situtation, WAF, and finding a buyer for my 657UY.
I hope so ;)

- Rich[/QUOTE]I'll give you $1000 for it right now. :)

[DavoM]

Are you saying the 65" will have no fan?

Peace,

DM

[RichB]

[QUOTE=optivity]I'll give you $1000 for it right now. :)[/QUOTE]

It's a deal. Of course, shipping is $4000 :D

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=DavoM]Are you saying the 65" will have no fan?

Peace,

DM[/QUOTE]

Nope. The 657uy has a bunch of them but the are low speed and very quiet. I do not find it objectionable. I had a NEC 61XM2 and those fans were too load for me.

No idea about the new 65, but my guess is that there are fans and that it is not a problem.

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=ripclawsa]Good luck, BruZZi.

BTW, can anyone here please update us on this new DVI blade from Panasonic? Thanks! And I wonder why they haven't released a new HDMI blade for the 65" (and the new 103") plasma.

OT here. BruZZi, down here in South Africa, the first 3 letters of your handle (Bru) is slang for "brother". Do people call you Bru for short?[/QUOTE]

There is a new DVI board for the 103 that accepts native rate (works with a PC). I expect that the same board will be available for the 65.

- Rich

[RichB]

Some updates:

- There is a new DVI board that is DVI 1.0 and HDCP 1.1 compliant that supports native rate (we knew this already).

- There is a new 1080P HDMI board for October, HDMI version not known.

Two items with the new 65 are a new SUPER CINEMA mode that has more processing to make movies more "watchable". Not sure what that means, but it sounds good :)

There is also a new menu called "1 to 1 Pixel" for native rate support. Reports are the it looked fantastic with an NVidia 6800 and 1080p video clips.

Also, preliminary specs confirm 10000:1 contrast ratio.

Too cool :D

- Rich

[mkoesel]

Thanks for the info Rich. Good stuff. Wonder if the HDMI and DVI boards work in all 9UK models, or just the "PF" models?

Also the 1 to 1 menu, I wonder if that will be added to the other 9UK models via firmware update or something? It would seem to be a useful thing to have on any panel, regardless of resolution.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]Thanks for the info Rich. Good stuff. Wonder if the HDMI and DVI boards work in all 9UK models, or just the "PF" models?

Also the 1 to 1 menu, I wonder if that will be added to the other 9UK models via firmware update or something? It would seem to be a useful thing to have on any panel, regardless of resolution.[/QUOTE]

I have no new information. But I would not expect any firmware updates to panels since I have never seen that in the past.

- Rich

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=RichB]
There is also a new menu called "1 to 1 Pixel" for native rate support.
[/QUOTE]

Good news! Finally some people with brains are designing these things.

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=RichB]Some updates:

- There is a new DVI board that is DVI 1.0 and HDCP 1.1 compliant that supports native rate (we knew this already).

- There is a new 1080P HDMI board for October, HDMI version not known.

Two items with the new 65 are a new SUPER CINEMA mode that has more processing to make movies more "watchable". Not sure what that means, but it sounds good :)

There is also a new menu called "1 to 1 Pixel" for native rate support. Reports are the it looked fantastic with an NVidia 6800 and 1080p video clips.

Also, preliminary specs confirm 10000:1 contrast ratio.

Too cool :D

- Rich[/QUOTE]


Great. Thanks very much again Rich.

Yay, native rate support! The new Pioneer 1080p plasma has the same feature and I was hoping the new Panny would offer the same.

It just keeps getting better :) :) :)

BTW, today I was viewing the Panasonic 58" plasma in a dark room with the Pioneer Pro-FHD1 (1080p) plasma, the Pioneer 50" 5060 plasma, a JVC RPTV and the Sharp 57." All playing a high-def feed of "Madagascar."

Wow did the Panasconic look dynamic and involving! It was easily the most eye-catching display in the room in terms of contrast and dimensionality - images just leaped off the screen.

However, the Pioneer models, particularly the Pro-FHD1 did not seem well calibrated for that source (this is what I presume made for such a large difference in PQ). The Pioneer Pro-FHD1 had distinctly higher black levels and at the same time was crushing shadow detail, so I don't know what was going on in particular with the settings.
But even if it was only due to picture settings, the comparison still provided a spectacular example of how much contrast plays a part in picture quality because in this case the lower-res Panasonic looked better in most ways - picture punch, picture clarity, richness, dimensionality etc. The Pioneer beat the Panny in terms of picture smoothness when taking very close seats to the display. (And I know the Pioneer can render images much more dramatic than what I saw today....but this does make me curious about it's over-all potential on lots of source material).

Man, the Panny 65" just seems like it's going to combine so many wonderful features I'm looking for in a plasma. (If I go plasma again...)

[RichB]

BTW,

Native rate is confirmed from DVI, the new HDMI board is not yet known. Let's hope they support 1080 24P/25P via DVI and via HDMI.

- Rich

[ripclawsa]

[QUOTE=RichB]BTW,

Native rate is confirmed from DVI, the new HDMI board is not yet known. Let's hope they support 1080 24P/25P via DVI and via HDMI. [/QUOTE]

As well as 1080p50 and 1080p60 for output from upscaling players like the Marantz DV9600. :)

RichB, would 1080p72 be a good thing to have?

Thanks again for the news on the new DVI and HDMI boards for the 65" and 103" commercial panels.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=ripclawsa]As well as 1080p50 and 1080p60 for output from upscaling players like the Marantz DV9600. :)

RichB, would 1080p72 be a good thing to have?

Thanks again for the news on the new DVI and HDMI boards for the 65" and 103" commercial panels.[/QUOTE]

It could not hurt. The 9UK shows extensive support for other refresh rates, but I think that is over the VGA input.

I have attached an image form the 509UK spec.

I did hear that the new DVI board supports 1080P/24 which is good for U.S. HD DVD and BD players.

- Rich

[ripclawsa]

Hopefully this panel will come standard with either the new DVI board or the new HDMI board.

Cheers.

PS. Looking forward to hearing more pre-launch news from you, RichB.

[jacksonian]

[QUOTE=R Harkness]Man, the Panny 65" just seems like it's going to combine so many wonderful features I'm looking for in a plasma. (If I go plasma again...)[/QUOTE]
Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis? If you go plasma again? What else would you do? LCD (can't imagine that with the blacks), DLP or SXRD front projection?

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=jacksonian]Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis? If you go plasma again? What else would you do? LCD (can't imagine that with the blacks), DLP or SXRD front projection?[/QUOTE]

I'm seriously tempted by projection, particularly a "constant height" (maximized for 2:35:1 scope movies) set up.

However, I still find the pull of plasma hard to resist. Recently I took the kids to see "Cars." It was an a HUGE, screen and the projected image was beautiful and immersive. But I couldn't help the nagging feeling that the images could look even more believably real than what I was getting with projection. Sure enough that night I tossed the Toy Story movies on my plasma and the computer animated objects had an intensity and realism that the projected image doesn't do. And I'm sort of addicted to that type of image.

I'm pretty certain that a Panasonic 65" 1080p plasma, viewed in conditions that are as controlled as a projection set-up (e.g. lights out, image surrounded by black) would be an incredible viewing experience.

[jacksonian]

That's what I thought. I have a 106" LCD projection system in the same room with the 50" Pioneer plasma (screen rolls down just in front of the plasma), so I can easily switch between both.

I love the huge immersive effect of the big screen, but I also love the vivid window like images of plasma. The 103" Panasonic plasma would be my idea of heaven.

It's really tough to beat the bang for the buck value of a good solid pj like the Panny 900 for about $2k with a 106" screen. Epics like LOTR just shouldn't be watched any other way.

I think the Sony Pearl and hopefully a Panasonic 1100 with C2fine at 1080p will REALLY make this a more difficult choice. I think SXRD or LCD with C2Fine would provide pq closest to plasma until 3 chip DLP is affordable (sorry, I don't do color wheels).

My solution is to have both. We raise the shades and watch the plasma pop with a football game on Saturday afternoons, then lower the shades and screen and get immersed in a big epic movie with the projector.

Okay, lots of rambling to say, Me Like 'Em Both! That is of course until I can afford 103" of plasma, baby!

[RichB]

I posted this on another Panasonic thread. Here is an image of preliminary specs (subject to change of course):

- Rich

[assJack1]

RichB:

All I see is a lot of zero's for power and size is 1080p. Am I missing something, is there more? Looks like someone 'cropped' the PDF file... ;)

[RichB]

[QUOTE=assJack1]RichB:

All I see is a lot of zero's for power and size is 1080p. Am I missing something, is there more? Looks like someone 'cropped' the PDF file... ;)[/QUOTE]

You can see the max contrast rating and the pixel count too.

This was either preliminary documentation or they have solved the power consumtion. It now actually produced electricity when running :D

- Rich

[Ken Ross]

[QUOTE=R Harkness]Thanks Rich!

"The 65 has the new 10000:1 contrast ratio."

Yeah. I kept seeing that contrast number on sites advertising the upcoming 65" 600U model. Since the Panny 65 1080p models were originally omitted from the increase in contrast (being an "old school" 3000:1 like my old ED plasma), I wondered if those sites were just grabbing specs numbers from the other smaller 600U line models.

So I shot Panasonic an email about it and received a confirmation that the 1080p 65" models coming here have the new rated contrast of 10,000:1

Nice to hear.

Boy, it was last fall we learned this beast was on the way! This is truly a lesson in patience.[/QUOTE]

Should this be a reason for concern since it appears the new 10,000:1 CR non-180p Pannys are the ones that have gotten some criticism for 'taking a step backward' in PQ?

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Ken Ross]Should this be a reason for concern since it appears the new 10,000:1 CR non-180p Pannys are the ones that have gotten some criticism for 'taking a step backward' in PQ?[/QUOTE]

No. The commerical models have take criticism for their default settings maxed out showroom mode. I think the sharpness has to be turned down.

Anyway, Commercial is the way to go for HT (IMHO).

- Rich

[RichB]

My source at Panasonic tells be that there has been no information indicating any delay in the release of the TH-65PF9UK.

Well, I guess no news is not bad news ;)

- Rich

[assJack1]

From all the news in the various threads, it appears as if the release of the PF and the 600u will be similtaneously. Atleast that's the way things seem to be shaping up.

[TimV]

It's still the middle of October, right?

Man, that's the exact same time my son is due (our first :) )

I guess the baby furniture is gonna have to wait!! :D

[Active Speaker]

Any conjecture as to what the street price would likely be around Christmas if this set comes out in October? Any idea if a 58" 9UK may also be released?

[richard korsgren]

..wondering why people notice specs so much. There are very few standards and a company will make the specs look as good as possible, of course. Takes me back to when transitor amps first came on the market and their specs were so much better than tube amps. Well, I still have tube anps. My point is, you be the judge with eyes (and ears) and not let specs sway you.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Active Speaker]Any conjecture as to what the street price would likely be around Christmas if this set comes out in October? Any idea if a 58" 9UK may also be released?[/QUOTE]

Rumor has it that there consideration for a Professional (Commercial) 58" but probably not before late 2007. In other words, don't hold your breath ;)

- Rich

[madshi]

[QUOTE=RichB]Rumor has it that there consideration for a Professional (Commercial) 58" but probably not before late 2007. In other words, don't hold your breath ;)[/QUOTE]
Would that be a 768p or a 1080p model? Thanks!

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]Would that be a 768p or a 1080p model? Thanks![/QUOTE]

My guess is that by late 2007 we will be looking at 1080P panels at all of the larger sized panels. It will be a 1080P world by then.

- Rich

[madshi]

[QUOTE=RichB]My guess is that by late 2007 we will be looking at 1080P panels at all of the larger sized panels. It will be a 1080P world by then.

- Rich[/QUOTE]
But the PZ models come additionally to the PX models - and at a higher price. I'm not sure how fast the 768p will go away. I sure hope it'll happen rather soon - of course only if the 1080p models are no worse in black level.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]But the PZ models come additionally to the PX models - and at a higher price. I'm not sure how fast the 768p will go away. I sure hope it'll happen rather soon - of course only if the 1080p models are no worse in black level.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I am really hoping to see the 768P black levels on the new 1080P commercial anyway.

My sense is that the fight against LCD is prompting the push for 1080P across the line. It will get harder to compete without it.

- Rich

[sthayashi]

Aww man, I'm going to have to wait until this time next year before I can get a 50PF9UK or whatever they're gonna call it then? This is kind of a bad time for a guy wanting to purchase his last major TV for at least 20 years or so, isn't it?

[ripclawsa]

October cannot come fast enough!

[RichB]

[QUOTE=sthayashi]Aww man, I'm going to have to wait until this time next year before I can get a 50PF9UK or whatever they're gonna call it then? This is kind of a bad time for a guy wanting to purchase his last major TV for at least 20 years or so, isn't it?[/QUOTE]

That time never exists. It 20 years, you will buy a screen that looks like wallpaper that you just tape to the wall. Pick your size. :p

You could consider a 509UK while you are waiting, then sell it to a friend. Could cost you about $1000 to $1500 for the 1 year rental ;)

- Rich

[RichB]

Information from a Panasonic source:

The contrast ratio for all commercial 1080P models is 5000:1. This seems to be due to the pre-charge required for about double the pixels. The 65 is still slated for October, the 103 for November, a new 1080P 50" due in December :D

Contrast Ratios specs all seem to be 5000:1 for all three 1080P models with the same 400:1 bright room contrast. That may mean that the black-level is a tad higher on that the 720P 9UK but should still be better than the 8UK.


Applies to all 3 1080P models:

- There is a new "Super-Cinema" mode that spec'd at 4X the previous white balance accuracy on a scene by scene basis.

- Phosphors have been improved for 100% compliance with the latest HDTV color spec ITU-R.BT709.

- Up to 16 bit digital processing, 4096 shades of gray.

- 1:1 pixel mapping - scaler off mode at 1920x1080 (DVI connection)

- 2.07 million pixels versus 1.05 million form the 1366x768 models

- The TY-FB9HD is a HD-SDI board (not a HDMI board)

- The TY-FB8HM maxes out at 1080i, so that will not provide 1080P HDMI. There is no word on a new HDMI board.

Just passing along the info. You know what I know ;)

- Rich

[madshi]

[QUOTE=RichB]The contrast ratio for all commercial 1080P models is 5000:1.[/QUOTE]
Is that static or dynamic contrast?

[QUOTE=RichB]This seems to be due to the pre-charge required for about double the pixels.[/QUOTE]
That's bad. And I don't fully understand it. I mean the pixel area is quite big in the 65". Shouldn't it be easily possible to achieve the same contrast in a 1080p 65" compared to a 720p 42" model? At least the pixel size can't be the problem. If it's really the number of the pixels, then I'm wondering what the pure number of pixels has to do with the pre-charge.

[QUOTE=RichB]Contrast Ratios specs all seem to be 5000:1 for all three 1080P models with the same 400:1 bright room contrast. That may mean that the black-level is a tad higher on that the 720P 9UK but should still be better than the 8UK.[/quote]
If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast then I expect the black level to be *worse* than 8UK. Remember, 8UK had a static contrast of 3000:1. Dynamic contrast was not specified for 8UK. Static contrast for the 9G 768p models is 4000:1, I believe. So for 9G 768p models, dynamic contrast is more than double static contrast. If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast for the 9G 1080p models, then static is likely less than 2500:1, which is worse than 8UK.

[QUOTE=RichB]- 1:1 pixel mapping - scaler off mode at 1920x1080 (DVI connection)
- The TY-FB8HM maxes out at 1080i, so that will not provide 1080P HDMI. There is no word on a new HDMI board.[/QUOTE]
So there's a DVI board accepting 1080p, but no HDMI board doing so? Well, no problem for me.

But the contrast respectively the black level *is* a problem for me.

[Ken Ross]

[QUOTE=RichB]Information from a Panasonic source:

The contrast ratio for all commercial 1080P models is 5000:1. This seems to be due to the pre-charge required for about double the pixels. The 65 is still slated for October, the 103 for November, a new 1080P 50" due in December :D

Contrast Ratios specs all seem to be 5000:1 for all three 1080P models with the same 400:1 bright room contrast. That may mean that the black-level is a tad higher on that the 720P 9UK but should still be better than the 8UK.


Applies to all 3 1080P models:

- There is a new "Super-Cinema" mode that spec'd at 4X the previous white balance accuracy on a scene by scene basis.

- Phosphors have been improved for 100% compliance with the latest HDTV color spec ITU-R.BT709.

- Up to 16 bit digital processing, 4096 shades of gray.

- 1:1 pixel mapping - scaler off mode at 1920x1080 (DVI connection)

- 2.07 million pixels versus 1.05 million form the 1366x768 models

- The TY-FB9HD is a HD-SDI board (not a HDMI board)

- The TY-FB8HM maxes out at 1080i, so that will not provide 1080P HDMI. There is no word on a new HDMI board.

Just passing along the info. You know what I know ;)

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Rich, why would the stated CRs be different for the consumer & commercial units. I think the consumer model is stated as 4,000:1. I also assume that the other tech specs are the same for both (sans the boards in the commercial unit)?

[RichB]

[QUOTE=madshi]Is that static or dynamic contrast?
That's bad. And I don't fully understand it. I mean the pixel area is quite big in the 65". Shouldn't it be easily possible to achieve the same contrast in a 1080p 65" compared to a 720p 42" model? At least the pixel size can't be the problem. If it's really the number of the pixels, then I'm wondering what the pure number of pixels has to do with the pre-charge.
[/QUOTE]

I cannot say for sure. All the information passed my way indicates that there is a real contrast ratio increase in the 9UK that is *more* that a measurement methodology.


If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast then I expect the black level to be *worse* than 8UK. Remember, 8UK had a static contrast of 3000:1. Dynamic contrast was not specified for 8UK. Static contrast for the 9G 768p models is 4000:1, I believe. So for 9G 768p models, dynamic contrast is more than double static contrast. If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast for the 9G 1080p models, then static is likely less than 2500:1, which is worse than 8UK.


I think that is not the case. Personally, I would expect the smaller pixels to produce less light since they are smaller and you still need twice the "gap" between pixels even with the size of the gap reduced. To me, it would make sense if black levels were similar but total light output was reduced. Since no hard numbers were given, I think this is mostly conjecture here. Since the contrast ratios are the same as the consumer line, I expect we should have real numbers and at least user reviews (Yes I am taking about you Harkness :D ) before these panels are available.


So there's a DVI board accepting 1080p, but no HDMI board doing so? Well, no problem for me. But the contrast respectively the black level *is* a problem for me.


I guess we wait and see. DVI board is fine for me too, and I think it comes with the panel :)

- Rich

[Ken Ross]

[QUOTE=madshi]If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast then I expect the black level to be *worse* than 8UK. Remember, 8UK had a static contrast of 3000:1. Dynamic contrast was not specified for 8UK. Static contrast for the 9G 768p models is 4000:1, I believe. So for 9G 768p models, dynamic contrast is more than double static contrast. If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast for the 9G 1080p models, then static is likely less than 2500:1, which is worse than 8UK.

[/QUOTE]

This is what definitely concerns me. Do we notice a trend here folks? Most who have seen the 1080p Pioneer FH1 (myself included) couldn't help but notice higher black levels relative to the non-1080p Pioneers. I speculated when I first saw it that it might be endemic to 1080p displays. Reading this I become more concerned than ever. I won't settle for a display of this size with poor black levels. :(

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=Ken Ross]This is what definitely concerns me. Do we notice a trend here folks? Most who have seen the 1080p Pioneer FH1 (myself included) couldn't help but notice higher black levels relative to the non-1080p Pioneers. I speculated when I first saw it that it might be endemic to 1080p displays. Reading this I become more concerned than ever. I won't settle for a display of this size with poor black levels. :([/QUOTE]

I know what you mean.

At least a couple people who looked at the Panny 1080p model at trade shows commented the black levels looked gorgeous. FWIW.

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=RichB]Information from a Panasonic source:

The contrast ratio for all commercial 1080P models is 5000:1. This seems to be due to the pre-charge required for about double the pixels. The 65 is still slated for October, the 103 for November, a new 1080P 50" due in December :D

Contrast Ratios specs all seem to be 5000:1 for all three 1080P models with the same 400:1 bright room contrast. That may mean that the black-level is a tad higher on that the 720P 9UK but should still be better than the 8UK.


Applies to all 3 1080P models:

- There is a new "Super-Cinema" mode that spec'd at 4X the previous white balance accuracy on a scene by scene basis.

- Phosphors have been improved for 100% compliance with the latest HDTV color spec ITU-R.BT709.

- Up to 16 bit digital processing, 4096 shades of gray.

- 1:1 pixel mapping - scaler off mode at 1920x1080 (DVI connection)

- 2.07 million pixels versus 1.05 million form the 1366x768 models

- The TY-FB9HD is a HD-SDI board (not a HDMI board)

- The TY-FB8HM maxes out at 1080i, so that will not provide 1080P HDMI. There is no word on a new HDMI board.

Just passing along the info. You know what I know ;)

- Rich[/QUOTE]

Dammit, you beat me to posting these specs :D

[Jason30]

So this 1080p 1:1 mode, will it accept any framerate fed to it?

1080p24 for BlueRay/HDDVD for example.

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=Ken Ross]This is what definitely concerns me. Do we notice a trend here folks? Most who have seen the 1080p Pioneer FH1 (myself included) couldn't help but notice higher black levels relative to the non-1080p Pioneers. I speculated when I first saw it that it might be endemic to 1080p displays. Reading this I become more concerned than ever. I won't settle for a display of this size with poor black levels. :([/QUOTE]

This is why I'm waiting for the 2nd gen Panasonic and Pioneer 1080p models. I'll ask my "pen pal" about the contrast ratio. I bet the reply be dynamic, but I'm hoping they are not.

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=madshi]Is that static or dynamic contrast?

If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast then I expect the black level to be *worse* than 8UK. Remember, 8UK had a static contrast of 3000:1. Dynamic contrast was not specified for 8UK. Static contrast for the 9G 768p models is 4000:1, I believe. So for 9G 768p models, dynamic contrast is more than double static contrast. If 5000:1 is dynamic contrast for the 9G 1080p models, then static is likely less than 2500:1, which is worse than 8UK.
[/QUOTE]

Lets keep our fingers crossed that its static. Too soon to jump to conclusions either way. I still would like to see an ANSI measurement and compare to other panels.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]This is why I'm waiting for the 2nd gen Panasonic and Pioneer 1080p models. I'll ask my "pen pal" about the contrast ratio. I bet the reply be dynamic, but I'm hoping they are not.[/QUOTE]

Please. The more information the better.

- Rich

[RichB]

[QUOTE=Ken Ross]Rich, why would the stated CRs be different for the consumer & commercial units. I think the consumer model is stated as 4,000:1. I also assume that the other tech specs are the same for both (sans the boards in the commercial unit)?[/QUOTE]

From what I seen, the Consumer 1080P is rated at 5000:1.
That is not what matters most to me. Black-Level is more important to me than absolute brightness.

- Rich

[richard korsgren]

Things are moving fast. Already to hit commercial market soon a 56 inch 3840 x 2160 display..4 times 1080p. And many people who live around me still have analog sets with analog OTA or analog cable.

[assJack1]

RichB:

Is it customary to keep the specifications real tight and have no the official announcement so close to the rumored release? Usually the marketing guys like to hype things up. In this case October is only a few weeks away. This lack of fanfare, just seems backwards not to have the internet get many people excited.

[yzkbug]

[QUOTE=RichB]I guess we wait and see. DVI board is fine for me too, and I think it comes with the panel :)

- Rich[/QUOTE]

But, does it support HDCP over DVI?

[assJack1]

[QUOTE=yzkbug]But, does it support HDCP over DVI?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=RichB]The 65 is still slated for October, the 103 for November, a new 1080P 50" due in December :D[/QUOTE]

It would be nice to see 58" 1080p commercial model land in there somewhere too. The latest price drops for the 768p models appear to pave a nice path for reasonable prices on the 1080p models. I won't buy a 1080p model until I can move up in size from my 50" for the same price I paid a couple years ago. I don't think a 65" will be in that range any time soon. But a 58" might just make it.

[optivity]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]I won't buy a 1080p model until I can move up in size from my 50" for the same price I paid a couple years ago. I don't think a 65" will be in that range any time soon. But a 58" might just make it.[/QUOTE]From another 50" PDP owner, my sentiments exactly. The only problem is, while the TH-58PX60/600U looks really BIG when displayed at the B&Ms... once we get it home, a year from now, it will be too [size=1]small[/size] too. :rolleyes: Let's make a pact, and hold out for a 65" 1080p PDP. ;)

[hoodlum]

Until recently the Panny ED version always had a better black level and dark room contrast than the HD versions. It would not be surprising to see the same thing with 1080p and it may take a few generations to completely close the gap.

This will be just another reason for the 720p versions to become the new value champs. My guess is next year will be the last year for ED.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=optivity]From another 50" PDP owner, my sentiments exactly. The only problem is, while the TH-58PX60/600U looks really BIG when displayed at the B&Ms... once we get it home, a year from now, it will be too [size=1]small[/size] too. :rolleyes: Let's make a pact, and hold out for a 65" 1080p PDP. ;)[/QUOTE]

Too true. :)

In all honesty it won't be hard to wait because I think my wife will be quite resistant if I tell her I want to upgrade to a new display already.

[RichB]

I think it will be interesting to get the feedback on the new consumer model. If the black levels are as good or better than the 8 series, it will be a very attractive offer. We will also have to take into account the new accuracte color and gamma improvements provided by "Super-Cinema".

- Rich

[D-Nice]

Just received new information on the contrast ratio.....

The 5000:1 is a dynamic reading....it is NOT a static contrast ratio. My contact stated that the blacks will not be like the 9UK/60U/600U series. However, he did say they should be "comparable" to the 7th gen and a tad below the 8th gen Panasonics.

Madshi, the false contouring has improved in the 9th gen, but it has not been eliminated.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]Madshi, the false contouring has improved in the 9th gen, but it has not been eliminated.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!

Two more questions if you don't mind... :)

(1) Were you able to get information about whether 9G consumer and commercial models differ in black level?

(2) Do you know how Pioneer and Panasonic compare in terms of false contouring?

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=madshi]Thank you!

Two more questions if you don't mind... :)

(1) Were you able to get information about whether 9G consumer and commercial models differ in black level?

(2) Do you know how Pioneer and Panasonic compare in terms of false contouring?[/QUOTE]

1. No they do not. Same panel, same tech.

2. Based on my experience with the Pioneers, I have never seen false contouring that was actually caused by the panel. My source did explain to me why the Panasonics have it. However, I cannot post it as it violates their "trade secrets". Let's just say it was a trade off for something else everyone loves ;)

[madshi]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]1. No they do not. Same panel, same tech.

2. Based on my experience with the Pioneers, I have never seen false contouring that was actually caused by the panel. My source did explain to me why the Panasonics have it. However, I cannot post it as it violates their "trade secrets". Let's just say it was a trade off for something else everyone loves ;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks again! So I have to decide between best black level and no false contouring... :( SED, where art thou?

Now I'm getting wild with my next question... :D

When will Panasonic and Pioneer exchange patents? I guess Panasonic glass with a film filter instead of glass and with Black Crystal coating should be quite promising!

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=madshi]When will Panasonic and Pioneer exchange patents? I guess Panasonic glass with a film filter instead of glass and with Black Crystal coating should be quite promising![/QUOTE]

Ahhh.....

Many things to come in 2007 ;)

[madshi]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]Ahhh.....

Many things to come in 2007 ;)[/QUOTE]
:eek:

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]Just received new information on the contrast ratio.....

The 5000:1 is a dynamic reading....it is NOT a static contrast ratio. My contact stated that the blacks will not be like the 9UK/60U/600U series. However, he did say they should be "comparable" to the 7th gen and a tad below the 8th gen Panasonics.

Madshi, the false contouring has improved in the 9th gen, but it has not been eliminated.[/QUOTE]


Hmmm...that comes off as good and bad news to me. I kept imagining all that new resolution being married to what (appear to me) to be deeper blacks and more vibrant contrast ratio of the current 9gen. Darn. At least your contact information implies the black levels wouldn't be worse than on my old Panasonic plasma.

As far as this statement: "he did say they should be "comparable" to the 7th gen and a tad below the 8th gen Panasonics."

I'm trying to parse that one. It appears to imply a difference between the black levels of the 7 and 8gen panasonics, but I can't remember if there was such a purported difference. I do remember finding the noise being reduced in the 8gen, but not necessarily a difference either way in the depth of the black levels.

?

[akpokey]

[QUOTE=R Harkness] At least your contact information implies the black levels wouldn't be worse than on my old Panasonic plasma.?[/QUOTE]

Rich,

Don't make that assumption, the ED's have had a black level / contrast level advantage over the HD models until at least the 9's/6's. So, if the quote was comparing the 1080p's to the black level performance of past HD models, it will definately be a step backwards for those of us with newer ED's at home and MAY be for forum old timers with early gen ED's.


Alan

[R Harkness]

[QUOTE=akpokey]Rich,

Don't make that assumption, the ED's have had a black level / contrast level advantage over the HD models until at least the 9's/6's. So, if the quote was comparing the 1080p's to the black level performance of past HD models, it will definately be a step backwards for those of us with newer ED's at home and MAY be for forum old timers with early gen ED's.
Alan[/QUOTE]

While ED panels initially held a contrast advantage over the HD panels (at least in Panasonic's line up), that was I believe due to their ability to output greater light levels (thus increasing contrast) rather than by producing deeper black levels. There is an apparently inherent advantage in larger, fewer pixels, in producing higher light output.

But I have never noted that my ED plasma had any deeper black levels than the HD versions. Further, most of the standard-setting black level measurements of Panasonic plasmas (both early, by tech reviewers like Peter Putman, and current reviews) have come from the HD models.

In other words, I personally have not seen objective data showing the ED models have been producing deeper black levels than HD models.

Can you point me to any? Thanks.

[howe]

[QUOTE=optivity]From another 50" PDP owner, my sentiments exactly. The only problem is, while the TH-58PX60/600U looks really BIG when displayed at the B&Ms... once we get it home, a year from now, it will be too [size=1]small[/size] too. :rolleyes: Let's make a pact, and hold out for a 65" 1080p PDP. ;)[/QUOTE]
I had the 50PX600U and it was too small for letterbox movies but OK for most else at 10 to 12 feet. After the Panny price drop and a Magnolia 10% ticket I got a trade up deal on a 58PX600U that was too good to turn down considering I got my 50" at only 10% off the original MSRP and I was way over my 30 days no hassle refund. More like 60 days. I've had the 58" going on day two now but there's nothing I can imagine about it ever being "small." At 10 to 12 feet I find myself looking around to take in the whole picture at times and want to (at the moment) increase the viewing distance a couple more feet.

[LL3HD]

[QUOTE=howe]... At 10 to 12 feet I find myself looking around to take in the whole picture at times and want to (at the moment) increase the viewing distance a couple more feet.[/QUOTE]
howe, can you elaborate a bit more please, are there picture quality issues or is it just too close for your comfort? Does this mean that viewing at say 8 feet would be out of the question?

[akpokey]

[QUOTE=R Harkness]

In other words, I personally have not seen objective data showing the ED models have been producing deeper black levels than HD models.

Can you point me to any? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Googled and found the "Home Theater" mag article I read awhile ago:

" The TH-42PX500U's black level is identical to that of last year's model and is among the best we've measured (the best being a Panasonic plasma EDTV from February 2005). "

http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1205panasonic/index.html

I believe the higher light output of the larger pixels allows for a darker black filters to be used in the ED's. When I was making my decision to go ED last year, I was at least able to subjectively convince myself of this too. Perhaps, the earlier Gen ED's are equivalent in black level to the later gen HD's. Anyone?

I'd like to be wrong, it would accelerate my upgrade cycle.

Alan

[gimp]

I wonder if a 1080p HDMI card is held up for HDMI 1.3 chip availability.

[howe]

[QUOTE=LL3HD]howe, can you elaborate a bit more please, are there picture quality issues or is it just too close for your comfort? Does this mean that viewing at say 8 feet would be out of the question?[/QUOTE]
8' would be in your face, for sure, with anything above 55." As far as the PQ goes, the higher the resolution gets, let's say that will be 1080P on some limited sources, the closer you can get. That said, I don't think I'd want to get closer than 10' if I want to see the whole picture even at 1080P on a 1080P set with a wide screen presentation. Think of it in terms of going to a cinema and sitting too close to the screen. You have ultimate resolution and a ~big~ screen but there's a limit to how close you'd want to sit and still enjoy the show. Then there's the issue of just how much 1080P material and so on is there out there and how much will that change during 2007?

[LL3HD]

[QUOTE=howe]8' would be in your face, for sure...[/QUOTE]
Thanks, :cool: appreciate your comments regarding your experience with the 58” size.

I have my everyday seating anywhere from 8 to 14 feet which would be good for 58 or less and then there's the occasional-- through another room out the French doors to the patio-- seating position which is ideal for the 65 or greater. :D

[howe]

[QUOTE=LL3HD]Thanks, :cool: appreciate your comments regarding your experience with the 58” size.

I have my everyday seating anywhere from 8 to 14 feet which would be good for 58 or less and then there's the occasional-- through another room out the French doors to the patio-- seating position which is ideal for the 65 or greater. :D[/QUOTE]
Your neighbors would probably enjoy the 104" Panasonic with 1080P content but complain if you watch too much SD. :D

[hoodlum]

From the following 3 links you can see how the black levels compared between ED & HD. Both the 42PX25 (6th Gen) and 42PX500U (7th Gen) measured .027 ft-L for black level while the 42PD25 (6th Gen) measured .023 ft-L.


http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1205panasonic/index2.html

http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/205panasonic/index2.html

http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/1104panasonic/index2.html

[RichB]

hoodlum,

Thank you for the link. I like the hometheaterMag reviews because they provide consistent measurements like this.

So .27 HD to .23 SD is a pretty small difference :D

- Rich

[R Harkness]

Ahhh,

Thanks for the hometheatermag links.

Boy that would sort of be a bummer. I was hoping for better black levels than my old ED plasma, like the 9gen seem to supply. Well, I never particularly noticed higher black levels on the HD plasmas when I tested them out, so maybe I wouldn't notice so much at home. Still...darn...I hope the new 1080p model has good enough black levels!

[hoodlum]

[QUOTE=RichB]hoodlum,

Thank you for the link. I like the hometheaterMag reviews because they provide consistent measurements like this.

So .27 HD to .23 SD is a pretty small difference :D

- Rich[/QUOTE]

This is a difference of about 20%. There is no guarantee that a similiar difference exists between the 720p and 1080p plasmas although there does seem to be a correlation. I doubt we'll ever see any more ED reviews but it would be good see if the new contrast ratio improvements impacted the Black level of the new 9 Gen plasmas. Come on HTMAG!

[Zues]

Theirs always Samsung63 that i think will be black level champ of big plasmas.

[hoodlum]

[QUOTE=Zues]Theirs always Samsung63 that i think will be black level champ of big plasmas.[/QUOTE]

As long as they don't crush them which they have done in the past.

[RichB]

[QUOTE=hoodlum]Come on HTMAG![/QUOTE]

Let's hope there are some fomr HTMAG lurkers here. We are fans, now lets get reviews for the Pioneer 5070 and Panasonic 600!

- Rich

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=RichB]hoodlum,

Thank you for the link. I like the hometheaterMag reviews because they provide consistent measurements like this.

So .27 HD to .23 SD is a pretty small difference :D

- Rich[/QUOTE]

15% difference ;)

[frankluck]

Are there any reviews for the 63" Samsung?

[richard korsgren]

After hours of viewing tvs today..conclusions..sort of..The new Sony XBR 2/3 are lovely; the Panny 50 inch is best value in plasmas in mid-2000. and, at $1200, the EDTV Panny is the very best value..period. DVDS and SD are great on this display and HD content looks very good. And, in the stores, at 12 feet plus, it more than holds it own against sets costing 2 or 3 times more. It will do the job for many households. I come home, after seeing the latest and greatest, and am still amazed how really good the EDTV set looks on all kinds of content.