42" Plasma Decision Time

[johnnylongwood]

I've finally gotten the green light from the wife to take the plasma plunge. I've read countless threads on this forum. Thank you for your insights.

I've narrowed it down to the following models:

Pioneer PDP-4360HD and Panasonic TH-42PX60U

I know both models have avid followings. I'm interested in knowing WHY you chose one set over the other.

For the Pioneer fans, am I better off waiting for the PDP-4270HD?

For the Panasonic fans, is the PQ on a properly adjusted 60U really worse than the 50U? At this stage would the TH-42PHD8UK be a better choice?

Thanks for your help. I need to strike soon, before my green light fades...

Johnny

PS: I would love to 50", but our den is way too small for that.

[10k]

Go to the store with a few of your favorite DVD's and see which TV you prefer. In the end it is your eyes that matter and no amount of opinions on an internet forum is going to affect what your eyes see. I drove myself way too crazy reading threads on this board before finally getting my tv. [SIZE=1]42px60u[/SIZE] :)

[trich]

[QUOTE=johnnylongwood]I've finally gotten the green light from the wife to take the plasma plunge. I've read countless threads on this forum. Thank you for your insights.

I've narrowed it down to the following models:

Pioneer PDP-4360HD and Panasonic TH-42PX60U

I know both models have avid followings. I'm interested in knowing WHY you chose one set over the other.

For the Pioneer fans, am I better off waiting for the PDP-4270HD?

For the Panasonic fans, is the PQ on a properly adjusted 60U really worse than the 50U? At this stage would the TH-42PHD8UK be a better choice?

Thanks for your help. I need to strike soon, before my green light fades...


I had a px50 for a year and now have a px60. The PQ is the same. My grand-son has my px50 hook to a 360, I know I will never get it back so I got a 60. Its hard to beat a panny for PQ but the Pioneer looks good also.

[Nickerz]

Although I haven't considered the Pioneer panel I would like to know if you have seen the Samsung HP-S4253? I was at CC today and saw this side by side to the Panasonic and talk about a complete change of heart. I am now considering the Sammy and have ruled out the Pany completely. I would like to see the Pioneer you both are talking about so I'll see if I have time tomorrow. I'll have to go to BB b/c CC doesn't carry Pioneer.

Keep me updated on what you both choose! I'm in similar situation as my wife finally gave me the okay, so I want to decide soon but I want to be happy with my purchase.

Nick

[johnnylongwood]

Nick-

Thanks for the suggestion, I think... Just when I thought I had it narrowed down.

I'll check out the Samsung and let you know what I think. Our den can be bright during the daytime, so the anti glare screen would be of benefit during football season.

Not that I would buy a TV based on the bezel, but the silver on the Panny does nothing for me. The black on the Sammy looks nice. I'll let you know what I think after I check it out. Pls do the same with your impressions of the Pioneer.

Thx - J

[yobob]

FWIW, having been a mole in these forums for months . . . seems like most of the posts comparing this year's Pannys to last year's state that although the contrast is more in-your-face, the overall PQ is better in last year's models. Might just be a function of all the automatic picture-enhacing features, and if turned off might make the picture better, but I have observed a 50U directly below a 60U, and the new set had a harsh look to it, some might call it clayface.

I've never seen a Pioneer I didn't like, although they come at a bit of a price premium. Never seen a NEC, but the owners over on the NEC thread absolutely rave about them. Again, from my reading, if ever I was going to buy a panel sight unseen it would be the NEC.

my .01 (worth half as much)

[trich]

[QUOTE=yobob]FWIW, having been a mole in these forums for months . . . seems like most of the posts comparing this year's Pannys to last year's state that although the contrast is more in-your-face, the overall PQ is better in last year's models. Might just be a function of all the automatic picture-enhacing features, and if turned off might make the picture better, but I have observed a 50U directly below a 60U, and the new set had a harsh look to it, some might call it clayface.

I've never seen a Pioneer I didn't like, although they come at a bit of a price premium. Never seen a NEC, but the owners over on the NEC thread absolutely rave about them. Again, from my reading, if ever I was going to buy a panel sight unseen it would be the NEC.

my .01 (worth half as much)[/QUOTE]

This is BS...............I had a px50 for a year and now have a px60u, there is not a dime worth of difference in PQ. I will never understand why I keep reading on this AV board that the PQ has gone down on the 60u, this is simply not true.

[platypus]

I'm picking up a 4360 tonight, so I'll post my impressions in a few days. I was planning to hold off for the 4270, but I've read nothing but good reviews on the 6th gen Pioneer panels, and I really like the idea of having a media receiver and detachable speakers. Finally, closeout pricing was the final factor that pushed me towards the 6th gen instead of waiting for the 7th gen.

[johnnylongwood]

I'm in the same boat, closeout has me seriously considering it. Pls post your impressions when you have the time.

At this stage, I'm leaning towards the TH-42PHD8UK; however, the prospect of having to purchase two HDMI boards to the tune of ~$500 is giving me pause...

I found a local dealer that supposedly has the PDP-4270 in stock for under $3K, but he won't put it up on display. "Limited quantity only, my friend." Sketchy and very frustrating...

[Management]

[QUOTE=Nickerz]Although I haven't considered the Pioneer panel I would like to know if you have seen the Samsung HP-S4253? I was at CC today and saw this side by side to the Panasonic and talk about a complete change of heart. I am now considering the Sammy and have ruled out the Pany completely. I would like to see the Pioneer you both are talking about so I'll see if I have time tomorrow. I'll have to go to BB b/c CC doesn't carry Pioneer.

Keep me updated on what you both choose! I'm in similar situation as my wife finally gave me the okay, so I want to decide soon but I want to be happy with my purchase.

Nick[/QUOTE]

He is right really check it out. I have 2 friends that have the S4253 and 1 that has the S5053 and I kid you not. They are amazing PQ. I have been reading for like a month on it because I have one but I saving for it or might be waiting for the S5073, I don't know yet. These models blow the Pannys out of the water but man are those Pio expensive. I know prolly should change my sig now that I am considering 50" hehe

[conan48]

are you guys joking? Seriously. A samsung plasma blows a Panny out of the water! Thats funny stuff. Samsung is not even in the same ballpark as the Panny. Maybe you guys have all seen the Panny 60u sets in vivid which I will admit look horrible, but switch to standard and it looks amazing. The Panny gives you a 3D like effect because of the sharpness and clarity. The Samsung has a "foggy" screen. It looks washed out and doesn't have the depth that the Panny has. I could understand when people say the Pio is better because that is also an amazing set. So are the Fugitsu, NEC, Runco, Marantz, etc. But Samsung :D The Panny is the only set that is reasonably priced and can compete with the top dogs.

[GreystoneSC]

I'm about a week out, looking for the same size. Where might one in a smaller city find closeout pricing on the Pioneer? I think Tweeter is the only one around here that has Pioneer, and they certainly aren't discount.

My initial was the Panny, but even I noticed the clay face thing last time I was in CC... I'll have to play with the settings next time I go, now that I'm in the 1 week out mode.

[Management]

[QUOTE=conan48]are you guys joking? Seriously. A samsung plasma blows a Panny out of the water! Thats funny stuff. Samsung is not even in the same ballpark as the Panny. Maybe you guys have all seen the Panny 60u sets in vivid which I will admit look horrible, but switch to standard and it looks amazing. The Panny gives you a 3D like effect because of the sharpness and clarity. The Samsung has a "foggy" screen. It looks washed out and doesn't have the depth that the Panny has. I could understand when people say the Pio is better because that is also an amazing set. So are the Fugitsu, NEC, Runco, Marantz, etc. But Samsung :D The Panny is the only set that is reasonably priced and can compete with the top dogs.[/QUOTE]

Thats cool thats your opinion and I have read 100s of pages of reviews and on this forum so I besically understand what you are saying. But I spent 1.5 hours playing with settings on them both (yes I turned off Vivid on the Panny and Dynamic on Sammy) and I tell you man they are both on par with each other in terms of PQ. They both have their flaws but I think over all yes Panny isn't better IMO :p

[Management]

Plus man I hate that clay face on the Panny.

[HT_Aaron]

I could be wrong, I don’t believe the new 70 series have shipped out as of yet. So Mr. Johnnylongwood, I would be very careful. Have you checked out that dealer's reviews on resellerratings.com?

[HT_Aaron]

[QUOTE=Management]Plus man I hate that clay face on the Panny.[/QUOTE]

Like every display, the Sammy and the Panny have their ups and downs. The new Samsung models are very sharp. I personally think the colors are more vibrant on the Samsung, but they are not as 'true-to-life' as the colors on the Panasonic. Because of this, there will be lots of people on here that favor one or the other and cannot be swayed. But in the end, you really only have to convince yourself I guess :D

[Management]

[QUOTE=aa@tvauthority]Like every display, the Sammy and the Panny have their ups and downs. The new Samsung models are very sharp. I personally think the colors are more vibrant on the Samsung, but they are not as 'true-to-life' as the colors on the Panasonic. Because of this, there will be lots of people on here that favor one or the other and cannot be swayed. But in the end, you really only have to convince yourself I guess :D[/QUOTE]

Very true its a matter of preference.

[johnnylongwood]

I haven't checked out the ratings. This guy is an etailer who also happens to have a B&M store about an hour from my house. Like I said, it sounds sketchy, but he claimed to have a few in stock. He also refused to set up a display model in the showroom. Sorry, if I can't check it out before hand. No deal.

The other local etailer I contacted said they are still awaiting delivery and don't have a showroom.

That's the problem with living here in Jersey. These guys all work for Tony Soprano selling plasma's outta the back of their white vans...

[shane55]

aa is right.
I set up a friends' 42" 60U and 'clayface' is simply a matter of improper settings and can be dialed out. It is not a built-in characteristic of the panel.

I also spent a lot of time with a couple Sammy's. The new 53 series is very good. It is very sharp and punchy, but I think overly so. Having adjusted it as well as I could, I could not counter the edge enhancement, nor could I get a 'good black' without losing all shadow detail.

For those who are not that critical and just want a snappy, easy panel, the Sammy is perfect. If you want 'truer' colours, better gradations, better shadow detail, 'better' blacks, then the Panny is for you.

Personally... I prefer the outward styling of the Sammy over the Panny. I wouldn't have the 60U in my house.

Good luck.

shane

[Management]

From what a couple people have told me, from proper adjustments the Sammys can a tuned correctly just like the Pannys can by adjusting the reference values that the user menu deviates from in the service menu. I don't know if my friends did that but none of their Sammys have that problem.

To quote someone: "....nice that we have a choice [between two nice plasmas]"

Although on first glance of the Sxx53 that panel looks so good IMO.

[Nickerz]

[QUOTE=shane55]...Personally... I prefer the outward styling of the Sammy over the Panny. I wouldn't have the 60U in my house.[/QUOTE]



I think this is truly why I'm going with the Samsung. Both panels seem to have great PQ, so if this is pretty much equal (still thinking Sammy's model edges it out a little), then the case is the deal breaker for me plus the fact the Sammy has more features! (i.e., PC Input & PIP)

I went to BB yesterday and also looked at the Pioneer and it looks great too but then I'd be paying more for it and could get the 50" Sammy or Pany for that price almost.

Nick

[shane55]

[QUOTE=Nickerz]I think this is truly why I'm going with the Samsung. Both panels seem to have great PQ, so if this is pretty much equal (still thinking Sammy's model edges it out a little), then the case is the deal breaker for me plus the fact the Sammy has more features! (i.e., PC Input & PIP)

I went to BB yesterday and also looked at the Pioneer and it looks great too but then I'd be paying more for it and could get the 50" Sammy or Pany for that price almost.

Nick[/QUOTE]
Absolutely!
If the PQ *to your eyes* is equal (or better), then the Sammy kicks the Panny's butt, both in terms of 'features' and outward looks. In which case I don't really see an issue. :D

shane

[ballz3]

ok, quick question....do i go with a pioneer 425cmx with the HD explorer card, for around $2900, or the Pioneer 4360 for around $3100?

will the card be a better picture than the 6th gen new screen updates? what do you guys think?

thanks!!

[cknights]

Johnnylongwood et al.

It seems like we are in the same boat. I am trying to decide between the Samsung S4253 and now the Hitachi 42HDS69 (and maybe the NEC42XR4 for the right price). I was originally interested in the Panasonic TH-42PX60U, but have pretty much written it off now.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=691940

One feature I really liked about the Panasonic, which the others lacked, was an SD reader for digital pictures. Yet this has a drawback (I think) in that you can't display full screen shots of the pictures (can anyone confirm this?). The big thing that really bothered me was that after testing different settings in store on the Panny (which without question could be tuned better at home) I found that the colors and PQ just didn't seem as sharp or as vivid as either of the other two.
There was definitely a pronounced "clay" skin effect without changing the setting in standard and cinema mode. I was able mollify this effect after changing the setting to match some that I found posted in the 60U forum, but it was still noticeable. Also, with standard Best Buy/Circuit City looped material, the black levels seemed comparable to the Samsung (which was right next to it). So for the most part, the 60U is off my list. The other reason is that these screens really are like pieces of art when not in use, and there is no way I am hanging something that looks like the 42PX60U on my wall.

My next goal is to directly compare the Hitachi and the Samsung. Both pictures really jumped out at me the first time I saw them. If I find out anything useful I will drop a line.

[johnnylongwood]

well it took a bit longer than expected to unload our old TV. that just gave me extra time to read page after page of AVS opinions and agonize over the decision.

Of all the sets I saw, I liked the Pioneer 4270HD the best, but I didn't see $500-$1K difference in picture quality. The bezel is also much nicer looking than the cheap Panasonic one, but to me the outward appearance of the set is secondary.

Trying to explore all options, I checked out the 42" Hitachi (whatever their latest model number is) and Samsung S4253. Even after switching these to normal/standard mode the colors seemed unrealistic and oversaturated in a side by side comparison to the Panasonic 60U. Also the Panasonic had superior black levels, even my wife agreed she could tell the difference. Some people may like the super vibrant colors, in which case they may love these sets. To me, I want the colors to be as realistic as possible, not fake looking or exaggerated. One other note on the Samsung. The bezel is nice looking, but there is a small strip of stainless steel that runs across the bottom below the screen. It is angled and I found the reflection of this piece distracting. In a darkened room, probably not an issue. In the showroom, it bugged me. Having said that, I did not calibrate either of these TV's with DVE.

After narrowing it down to the Panasonic 60U, 600U & 8UK, I agonized waiting for people to get the latest generation HDMI blades for the 8UK. I like the 8UK's bezel much better, but was devastated to learn that there is an issue with the SA8300 box where you can not adjust the picture settings when connected through HDMI. The added expense of 2 HDMI blades (even if they did allow picture adjustments with my STB), plus the the fact that at some point this set will likely end up in the bedroom or basement. Meaning I'll need to get speakers for it and possibly a stand. Although I like the appearance of this set the best of all the Panasonics, I decided against this model as well.

So now between the 60U and 600U, both of which are in stock here locally in NJ. I liked the look of the 600U better, but that's the only difference that I would use. Even if the cablecard worked properly, I was unsure how often I would really use the picture in picture feature. My STB has it and I use it rarely. In the end it came down to appearance, and again I could not justify the price difference for a bezel that I find marginally better looking.

This morning I ordered the 60U using the AVS power buy from Hi Def Lifestyle along with the Harmony 880 remote. I have no affiliation and this is my first purchase from them. I'll let you know how it works out.

I'm in the market for a stand where the set mounts securely to the stand and I can fit my center channel below the TV. I'm considering the Studio Tech DP-2 w/ mounting pillars, BDI Vista and the OmniMount G3FP. Any opinions or other suggestions would be appreciated.

[nm4710]

Originally I ordered the Samsung...it was backordered and I grew skeptical of the merchant and canceled my order. I had always preferred the panasonic but felt it was too expensive. I'll tell you why I think the Panasonic is a better product (and a more highly rated product by experts in the field):

#1) Standard def is 100x better on the Panasonic than on the Samsung. Please go to any CC/BB and see for yourself. Head and shoulders above the Samsung. The Samsung is very grainy - even with a component input. Colors are pretty bad too.

#2) Zoom modes - very important for 16:9 TVs since practically nothing is available in 16:9. Samsung continues to neglect this fact as it endows its TVs with the worst zoom modes of any of the major manufacturers. This is honestly the biggest shortcoming of the 4353/5053 - no justify mode, the Zoom2 is utterly useless, and Zoom1 sacrifices quite a bit of image quality. So you must either risk burn-in without Zoom, or give up picture quality.

#3) Realistic colors - The Panasonic has very realistic colors - I think the samsung's colors are unnatural. Faces look too vivid. The Panasonic "clayface" issue can be corrected by reducing the picture setting and bringing the sharpness closer to 0. Correctly configured the Panasonic's detail on faces is almost as good as the samsung (I will concede that samsung has the edge here)

#4) Black - Nobody does black like Panasonic. Although the gap is narrowing, they're still in the lead of the major manufacturers.

#5) Ability to upgrade firmware via SD Card - A simple, quick way to rid the TV of bugs. In time it may prove its weight in gold.

Lastly regarding the appearance of the 60xu, while I agree it is not an elegant design by any means, this point is exaggerated. The panasonic is simple and understated. Personally I feel the shiny cheap plastic of the samsung is unbecoming as well. I'd give anything for one of these TVs to have the elegance of a bravia XBR...

Features wise you get a lot for your dollar with the Sammy - but are the features useful? Are you really going to use PIP without 2-tuners? And do you need a VGA connector when there's DVI-->HDMI?
NM

[Dufusyte]

[QUOTE=johnnylongwood]This morning I ordered the 60U[/QUOTE]
Good luck johnnylongwood; I hear the 60U picture quality can be top notch with the right settings!

[Management]

I think the units are on par. I've been to a few local CC/BB and at different places one plasma was kicking the others @$$. I don't trust CC/BB because I often check the settings and these poeple usually don't know what they are taking about. Last week I went to a Magnolia and saw a Sammy 5053 calibrated (My friend has one so I know what calibrated looks like) and man was it kick the panny that was on the BB floor. I mean I was standing there for like an 15 mins then I sat down and sat for another 50 lol. just came back from Japan on the 30th and I was in Osaka near Umeda Station (if anyone else has ever been) and the have this huge electronic store siting there and I saw a bunch of Panny's that appeared to be calibrated because they were looking amazing then I saw a Pio and was like why do you have to be expensive.

I've stopped taking people's reviews too seriously because people get too bias I've started to just look at these TVs after calibration and there for settled on the Sammy 1080p DLP because (again after calibration) it looks amazing, nice and bright, and best value for screen size. Currently I'm on a waiting list :(

[mule65]

The new Sammy plasma PQ is much improved. I initially liked the Sammy's black "piano" bezel but now think it looks really cheap. It looks like plexiglass that's been painted black on the inside. The bezel glare is aweful. You can see warping in the bezel glare that looks ultra cheap. I'm not sure why they don't make a consumer model that looks as good as the Panny and NEC industrial models.

[tvbug]

[QUOTE=mule65]The new Sammy plasma PQ is much improved. I initially liked the Sammy's black "piano" bezel but now think it looks really cheap. It looks like plexiglass that's been painted black on the inside. The bezel glare is aweful. You can see warping in the bezel glare that looks ultra cheap. I'm not sure why they don't make a consumer model that looks as good as the Panny and NEC industrial models.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

The shiny black bezel looks really cheap and reflective.

Samsung is stupid.They could have made a matte black bezel.

[StomSF]

[QUOTE=johnnylongwood]I'm in the market for a stand where the set mounts securely to the stand and I can fit my center channel below the TV. I'm considering the Studio Tech DP-2 w/ mounting pillars, BDI Vista and the OmniMount G3FP. Any opinions or other suggestions would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Just a center channel or are you also going to need an extra shelf or two for a component?

I ordered (should be arriving today!! :D) a Sanus PFFP2B which is a stand that has two shelves mounted below the plasma mount. The PFFP is a little cheaper (by about $100) and has just one shelf.

I have read here on AVS that the mount on these units is a good one with tilt and swivel adjustability; that plus the wire management channel is ideal for the aesthetics vs. functionality that I wrestle with at home. :rolleyes:

Good luck!

[johnnylongwood]

I really only need one shelf for the center channel. I have considered moving my STB beneath the TV. Right now my STB is in the Studio Tech Ultra U60 cabinet where all the lights are somewhat hidden behind the grille on the door. Whether the TV stand comes with one or two shelves doesn't really matter, most of them are detachable anyway.

I was checking out that Sanus stand. It is actually shorter (heightwise) than all the stands I listed. That happens to be a good thing in our particular intallation. Please let me know how you like it once you get it set up.

BTW I forgot my VISA debit card has a daily spending limit. :eek: D'Oh! Hopefully my plasma will ship today.

[StomSF]

I got the Sanus unit last night and spent a couple hours putting it together -- assembly was a breeze, extremely well documented and labeled on all the parts and screws. My main struggle last night was packing in the cables into the column, once a few got in it was a bit more difficult but fortunately the channel for the cables is quite large. I looked over the install of the mount and it looks very straightforward, aesthetically we are very happy with the unit. I'll take some pics tomorrow once we have the TV mounted and the wires hidden just the way I want them. :D

[zanspgn]

I have the Panny TH42PX60U and prefer the picture quality better in standard mode. My parents (in their 80s) prefer vivid mode. I think in vivid mode the faces have that clay-like look, but in standard mode they look fine. The zoom feature is useful, the h-fill mode is useless. I bought this set 10 weeks ago and have been happy with it. My parents bought the same model a month ago and have been happy with theirs, too. My mother watches non-HD pictures in stretch mode, which makes people look fat, but she can't stand the gray bars on the side. I like the black bars better than the gray bars, but you shouldn't use the black side bars the first 100 hours, and then only 15% of the time the next 900 hours. I have about 500 hours on my set and I noticed the other day after accidentally leaving the black bars on for 4 hours there was a little burn-in on the side. I got nervous, but the burn-in disappeared in about 10 minutes. In another 10 weeks I won't have to worry about the black side bars as much. Great TV!

[StomSF]

Unfortunately the power cord is too big to fit through the openings for the wires in the pillar, but all in all a very clean look compared to the mess we had before. The mounting of the TV itself was as easy as putting the stand together -- I heartily recommend the Sanus stand.

[firemaf96]

my opinion....neither, i would go w/ the sammy

[johnnylongwood]

StomSF

Thanks for posting the pics. The stand looks very nice. I ordered the StudioTech DP-2 in rosewood. The websites listed it as being backordered until mid-Aug. Only after I ordered it, I learn that the rosewood is backordered until mid-Sep. That's a long time to wait for a stand, especially as my plasma will be delivered tomorrow.

I did notice that Costco has the one shelf version of the Sanus stand available online. It doesn't say Sanus, but the picture is identical. I may try it out in the interim to see how I like it. I have plenty of time to cancel the backordered stand...

[johnnylongwood]

Well the Panny TH42PX60U finally arrived yesterday from HiDef Lifestyle. As we have no stand until mid-Sept and I couldn't find an interim stand that would work with my center channel speaker, we have relocated a pottery barn console table and the smallest of 3 nesting end tables to the den. It's not ideal as the TV is a bit higher than I would like, but it will do for now.

What concerns me is the glare/room reflections off the screen. Most of our TV watching is done a night, but I do watch a fair amount of football. During daylight hours the reflections are very distracting to me.

There are 2 options as I see it:

(1) Return the set and replace it with an LCD set

(2) Try to rig up some kind of drapes/curtains to reduce the reflections.

I'm trying to avoid option #1 as I do like the TV. Even with the settings in Standard mode dialed down to 0, Finding Nemo was very impressive last night (after dark).

The wife will not allow me to install anything permanent. I'm considering getting some black out fabric to hang over the plantation blinds behind the couch directly opposite the TV. I'm envisioning something very basic like using clothes pins to attach the fabric to the valance at the top of the blinds. I figure a neutral colored black out fabric might prevent the unwanted reflection. Has anyone tried this? Is it worth a shot or am I grasping at straws here?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.