Official Pioneer PDP News Flash

[Pioneer Trainer]

There has been some recent misinformation/misunderstanding of the specs of the current and new Pioneer PDP panels. Specifically that all of the new panels are 1080p displays. This is not correct. At this time, only the 50" Elite PRO-FHD1 is a native 1080p display (1920x1080). The current 43", 50" and 61" panels (Pioneer-branded and Elite alike) are 1024x768, 1280x768 and 1365x768 respectively.

The new 42", 50" and 60" Pioneer and Elite panels are (excepting the PRO-FHD1) 1024x768, 1365x768 and 1365x768 respectively. Please note the differences in pixel count between the previous and newer 50" models. The 43" size has been reduced to 42", and the 61" size has been reduced to 60". The new PRO-1540HD 60" television is comprised entirely of existing and new Pioneer-developed technologies, such as Deep Encased Cell Structure, Crystal Emissive Layer, and an improved First Surface Pure Color Filter, as well as improved Blue and Red phosphors. All of the new PDPs, however, will accept a 1080p signal via either of each set's two HDMI inputs.



[SIZE=1]Rolf Hawkins
National Trainer - Home Electronics Division
Pioneer Electronics (USA), Inc.
Long Beach, CA[/SIZE]

[cvye]

Rolf,
Can you expound on frequency compatibility for the new panels through HDMI and component? If they are compatible with 1080p/24Hz signals, can we expect them to also be compatible with other rates, such as NR/72 or NR/50 or NR/75 (NR=native resolution), or even up to 1080p/120Hz?
Thanks!

[PhantomOG]

Is it just me or is the Pioneer website STILL down from last week? I didn't check over the weekend, but it was out on Friday and still out today.

[Pioneer Trainer]

Hello again.

As much as I'd like to, until I get the nod from my bosses, I can't get into any other specifics prior to the official press releases in the coming months for the actual product launches. I don't mean to avoid the questions, but depending on which model you are interested in, you won't be disappointed. Read between the lines as you will. I was requested to address the resolution issue specifically, and not authorized to address anything else...yet. I just got off the phone with Corp. and learned that more info will be tight until the press releases. My sincere apologies; didn't mean to be a tease! In any case, the new panels are much better than even I anticipated!

And yes, the Pioneer site is still down. We're in the process of completely revamping it, but hopefully we'll be back in action sooner rather than later.

[SIZE=1]Rolf Hawkins
National Trainer - Home Electronics Division
Pioneer Electronics (USA), Inc.
Long Beach, CA[/SIZE]

[yobob]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]My sincere apologies; didn't mean to be a tease! In any case, the new panels are much better than even I anticipated!

[SIZE=1]Rolf Hawkins
National Trainer - Home Electronics Division
Pioneer Electronics (USA), Inc.
Long Beach, CA[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

"Didn't mean to be a tease?"

"BETTER THAN EVEN I ANTICIPATED?"

DIDN'T MEAN TO BE A TEASE??????? :rolleyes:

[koan]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]Hello again.

As much as I'd like to, until I get the nod from my bosses, I can't get into any other specifics prior to the official press releases in the coming months ....

[SIZE=1]Rolf Hawkins
National Trainer - Home Electronics Division
Pioneer Electronics (USA), Inc.
Long Beach, CA[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Months?!!! :eek:

[MaliciousBraham]

[QUOTE=koan]Months?!!! :eek:[/QUOTE]

Is the full Elite line launching at the same time as the consumer line? ( rhetorical question )

[koan]

[QUOTE=MaliciousBraham]Is the full Elite line launching at the same time as the consumer line? ( rhetorical question )[/QUOTE]Hmmm... I took "product" as meaning each model, not each line.

[Schteevie]

I just bought a 4360 and want to know how future warrently support will work in terms of the '05 screens with media revievers having been discontinued...

I really like the seperate media reciever aspect of the 4360.
In the event that I had an unreparable issue with the screen or reciever, is Pioneer still able to replace these parts, or are we forced to upgrade to a new model screen altogether?

thnx

[amheck]

what would future versions with no media receivers have anything to do with your warranty support? :confused:

[Schteevie]

[QUOTE=amheck]what would future versions with no media receivers have anything to do with your warranty support? :confused:[/QUOTE]

If they don't make media receivers any more, and my media receiver (or screen that requires the media receiver) breaks beyond repair, what are they going to replace it with?

That is why I am asking in this thread.

[yobob]

If they do like most manufacturers, they will replace it with the model that is currently available at that time. And I guess that would mean without a media receiver.

[uzombie]

I was at local BB tonight and saw (a) 61" Pioneer and went....gasp...wow.
However, the price was just a wee off 5 digits (too much for me) and then I read the specs and was like, what??? no 1080p...
Aside from all the "there is no real 1080p content for it and blah blah there is.." I was impressed when I stood about 10' back...darn...if I only had that wee five digits...to burn.

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=uzombie]I was at local BB tonight and saw (a) 61" Pioneer and went....gasp...wow.
However, the price was just a wee off 5 digits (too much for me) and then I read the specs and was like, what??? no 1080p...
Aside from all the "there is no real 1080p content for it and blah blah there is.." I was impressed when I stood about 10' back...darn...if I only had that wee five digits...to burn.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that's also a 2-3 year old plasma panel in that set - Pioneer hasn't updated that glass in the past two generations. The sets being talked about here will use current panel technology. That means they should look unbelievable!

[Mike1117]

Pioneer site back online now. Different look, but still no mention of the __70HD series tvs.

[omegaGray]

Take it easy on poor Rolf. From his title, he trains dealers on how to sell their products, and POSSIBLY on how to support them after the sale. From what I've seen on this board, the guy who designed them would have a tough time answering all the questions we have :)

I've seen the 1080p 50" at a dealer conference Pio held (no, not a dealer, but I know how to pretend like I play one on TV), and the older 61" inch, and as much as the Pro-FHD1 made parts of me quiver I forgot I had, I'm biding my time until I can see the 60", particularly after SWMBO and I spent some time contemplating the 61" at a local dealer. Good stuff, peeps, and for me and SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed), it will all come down to viewing distance. If we can't see the difference between the 60" and the 50" from 10 to 12 feet, we're going for the five-footer.

Because, let's face it--five full feet of top-notch display technology is just plain better than four foot two, at least when we're far enough away for our aging retinas to blur it all together.

Pending Pio's pricing decisions, of course. We've got money to burn, but we also have other habits to support...

For the record, the phrase "five full feet of top-notch display technology is just plain better than four foot two" has been copyrighted. Those wishing to purchase the rights may contact me via pm :cool:

[westa6969]

[QUOTE=omegaGray]

For the record, the phrase "five full feet of top-notch display technology is just plain better than four foot two" has been copyrighted. Those wishing to purchase the rights may contact me via pm :cool:[/QUOTE]

It's a good thing they got rid of that inch for your copyright. ;)

Very interested in the feedback on the 6070 as my viewing of the NEC version 6100 was horrid next to a Panny 500U when I viewed them side-by-side. Obvious the 6070 should be a winner as it's alll Pio now and bringing forward 5070 Technology. Anxiously awaiting feedback but all specs outside it not being 1080P are fantastic otherwise and a helluva value from the pre-order quotes I've gotten from Cleveland Plasma. :)

[westa6969]

[QUOTE=uzombie]I was at local BB tonight and saw (a) 61" Pioneer and went....gasp...wow.
However, the price was just a wee off 5 digits (too much for me) and then I read the specs and was like, what??? no 1080p...
Aside from all the "there is no real 1080p content for it and blah blah there is.." I was impressed when I stood about 10' back...darn...if I only had that wee five digits...to burn.[/QUOTE]
If your viewing the 61" that's the two year old panel from NEC Pio uses (6100 model) and don't be insane and consider BB when the brand new 6070 will be half that figure via Forum Sponsor. Not allowed to post though. The 6070 should blow away that 61" for half the price from the right dealer and BB is NOT the right dealer unless you have money to burn and donate to BB shareholders. ;)

[koan]

[QUOTE=westa6969]If your viewing the 61" that's the two year old panel from NEC Pio uses (6100 model) and don't be insane and consider BB when the brand new 6070 will be half that figure via Forum Sponsor. Not allowed to post though. The 6070 should blow away that 61" for half the price from the right dealer and BB is NOT the right dealer unless you have money to burn and donate to BB shareholders. ;)[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, you have to live within a couple of hundred miles of Cleveland Plasma to get the 6070 there, though that may change by the time it comes out. TVA should also have it.

The question on the 6070 is when will it be available? With school winding down for my kids, DVD-watching season is about to begin. Rolf's post makes me wonder if the 6070 will be out even before the start of NFL season. The Panasonic 58" is expected soon; if it looks good, I may go with it.

[D-Nice]

BB has both the 4271 and 5071 in their warehouse now. My local BB had both in the back but would not put them out until they sold the last 3 floor models. Both are on sale. If you want to see the new models, please visit your local BB.

[cammy]

Wow, there's some great information on this thread! To reassure you, Koan, We are going to carry the new lines of Pioneer (We are one of the few authorized dealers for Pioneer which can be found on their site (www.pioneerusa.com)..good thing their site came back up..:)) I'm eager to hear what everyone has to say about this model..and see it in person! Maybe I will take the Pioneer plunge..one of these days..

Cheers,
Cambryn

[HT_Aaron]

I am eager as well. And by the way Rolf, thanks for jumping on here! It’s always great to have an actual manufacturer rep make an appearance here on the forum.

[cheridave]

I like most people hope that Pioneer Trainer is the real thing, but here on the internet were anybody can profess to be anybody please be cautious until his claims can be substantiated.

Dave

[Cleveland Plasma]

Dave,
You or anyone can call 1-800-pioneer to find out :)

[amheck]

Seems best buy has the 43" and 50" at the same price now (at least one line). I wonder when they'll go on sale in anticipation of these new sets?

[billybob_jcv]

[QUOTE=cheridave]I like most people hope that Pioneer Trainer is the real thing, but here on the internet were anybody can profess to be anybody please be cautious until his claims can be substantiated.

Dave[/QUOTE]

I'm all in favor of caution on 'net boards, but to be fair to Rolf, he really didn't make any claims that haven't been substantiated elsewhere. All he did was say that xx70 series displays and the Elites (except the FHD1) aren't native 1080. Amyone who has bothered to read the Pioneer press releases and/or looked at the pdf spec sheets that are available on the web already knew that.

Now, if I was going to pretend I was from Pioneer, I would at least claim to be a Marketing VP. That's the perfect cover - you could sound important and say anything you want, and if anyone else showed proof that conflicted with your story, you could just say "Sorry, they don't always give Marketing all the details", or you could just continue saying the wrong thing, and everyone else would just assume you were a typical clueless Marketing executive... :D

[yobob]

Ther're here: ;) www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7831645&&#post7831645

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=MaliciousBraham]Is the full Elite line launching at the same time as the consumer line? ( rhetorical question )[/QUOTE]

The Elite PDPs are launching in August for the 42"/50" models and September for the 60". The Pioneer-branded 42"/50" models are shipping in July. I believe the 60" Pioneer is shipping in August, but I'll have to double-check on that.

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=Schteevie]I just bought a 4360 and want to know how future warrently support will work in terms of the '05 screens with media revievers having been discontinued...

I really like the seperate media reciever aspect of the 4360.
In the event that I had an unreparable issue with the screen or reciever, is Pioneer still able to replace these parts, or are we forced to upgrade to a new model screen altogether?

thnx[/QUOTE]

Great questions. However, since I don't actually sell or deal with support issues, all I can advise you to do if you ever do experience any problems is call the (800) # on your owner's manual.

Folks, as an FYI, as a trainer, I deal with all the specs and feature-sets for the home electronics products. Happily I don't sell them or worry about stock levels or specific service issues which may crop up from time to time. Please contact your reseller first so they can be made aware of any problems which may be addressed under warranty. We aggressively support our dealers, so that we may make sure you are happy.

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=Mike1117]Pioneer site back online now. Different look, but still no mention of the __70HD series tvs.[/QUOTE]

You'll see them there as soon as they are officially on sale. Naturally we don't want to start the average joe on the street salivating too much and keeping the honest dealers from being able to sell off any remaining stock.

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]BB has both the 4271 and 5071 in their warehouse now. My local BB had both in the back but would not put them out until they sold the last 3 floor models. Both are on sale. If you want to see the new models, please visit your local BB.[/QUOTE]

Good tip!

[blueskies758]

7th gen Pioneer plasmas (42/50) shipping in July?

I saw a 4271 and 5071 box in the warehouse where I work at my local BB today. Nothing yet on display though, but they should look tasty.

August for Elites? No media reciever for those too, right?

These new non-Elite sets having night and day ISF modes kind of eliminate the urge to wait that long. Hopefully these new sets just use essentially the same circuitry like the 6th gen panels did...

[markrubin]

Pioneer Trainer

Welcome to the forum: we appreciate your contributing to AVS

(he checks out fine: sorry for being a little cautious at first)

[Kampfer]

Woohoo, we officially got a pioneer rep.

I work at a Best Buy also and after a couple more old displays are sold, the new ones should come out.

I'm eager to find out if the new elites have the receiver too or not. Some of the new specs on these new xx70 series is looking mighty fine though. The USB like sony xbr lcd's, the direct input selection for remote, 5 aspect ratio controls and 6 video settings. (Pure no longer an elite setting)

[cheridave]

Yes, I agree:)

Welcome and thanks for your contributions.

Dave

[satsound]

[QUOTE=uzombie]I was at local BB tonight and saw (a) 61" Pioneer and went....gasp...wow.
However, the price was just a wee off 5 digits (too much for me) and then I read the specs and was like, what??? no 1080p...
Aside from all the "there is no real 1080p content for it and blah blah there is.." I was impressed when I stood about 10' back...darn...if I only had that wee five digits...to burn.[/QUOTE]
The 6070 is going to be much lower in price

[kosh2258]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]The Elite PDPs are launching in August for the 42"/50" models and September for the 60". The Pioneer-branded 42"/50" models are shipping in July. I believe the 60" Pioneer is shipping in August, but I'll have to double-check on that.[/QUOTE]

Is "launching" another way of saying shipping in the above statement? I'm trying to get my arms around the semantics. :)
Sometimes introduction doesn't equate to available.

Add my thanks to you, and Pioneer, for providing some useful information regarding the new line. Makes my decision process easier, but not the waiting. :D

[cammy]

Maybe the Pioneer rep can clarify some rumors that have been going around about the MSRP said to be $6500 or around there on the PDP-6070HD model. Can you confirm what MSRP is on the PDP-6070?

Best regards,
Cambryn

[Ange Rizzo]

Would this help clarify the rumours?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/09/pioneers-new-purevision-pdp-4270hd-5070hd-and-6070hd-plasmas/

[RBurgundy]

[QUOTE=Ange Rizzo]Would this help clarify the rumours?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/09/pioneers-new-purevision-pdp-4270hd-5070hd-and-6070hd-plasmas/[/QUOTE]Don't you mean this article?

Pioneer's new PureVision PDP-4270HD, 5070HD, and 6070HD plasmas (http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/09/pioneers-new-purevision-pdp-4270hd-5070hd-and-6070hd-plasmas/)

I simply can't wait to see the 6070 in action. :)

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=kosh2258]Is "launching" another way of saying shipping in the above statement? I'm trying to get my arms around the semantics. :)
Sometimes introduction doesn't equate to available.

Add my thanks to you, and Pioneer, for providing some useful information regarding the new line. Makes my decision process easier, but not the waiting. :D[/QUOTE]


Launching sometimes means the same thing as shipping. For those of you out there familiar with the video card industry, many brands tend to do "paper launches" of their new products (i.e. press events) before actually shipping the product to the dealers. Best Buy tends to be the 800lb gorilla in the market as we all know, and again as I don't sell to anyone, I can't comment on any special arrangements which may or may not have been made as to when they can start to display the 70-series panels. I was just in my local BB and they had a PDP-4271HD in the stock room since the 11th, but it had not been put out on display yet.

[koan]

My local BB (Alexandria, VA) has the 5071 on display and said they could get one to me in 2 days. I'm interested in the 6070 though.

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=RBurgundy]Don't you mean this article?

Pioneer's new PureVision PDP-4270HD, 5070HD, and 6070HD plasmas (http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/09/pioneers-new-purevision-pdp-4270hd-5070hd-and-6070hd-plasmas/)

I simply can't wait to see the 6070 in action. :)[/QUOTE]
The Engadget article is quoting MAP prices. MSRP is always considerably higher. Obviously we can't tell a dealer what to sell the products for, but there are Minimum Advertsied Prices. The quoted prices are (at this time) pretty accurate.

[Pioneer Trainer]

By the way, folks, if you don't see any responses from me for several days to a week here and there, it's 'cause I'm on the road---and I do a LOT of that! I'll do my best to try and stop by at least once a day, but no promises.

As soon as the new 7G PDPs are in the stores (Pioneer-branded first, Elite later), I'll be more than willing and able to help with any questions. For now I'll devote myself to 6G and earlier PDP questions.

Thanks!

[MaliciousBraham]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]
As soon as the new 7G PDPs are in the stores (Pioneer-branded first, Elite later), I'll be more than willing and able to help with any questions. For now I'll devote myself to 6G and earlier PDP questions.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Thanks for taking the time to come here to the forums!

Just an FYI, there is a specific thread dedicated to the 6G panels. Link is below. It is a large, large thread, so I just linked to the last (most recent) page.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582071&goto=lastpost

If you would rather keep all the questions here in this thread so that it is easier for you we can do that also.

[torch]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]By the way, folks, if you don't see any responses from me for several days to a week here and there, it's 'cause I'm on the road---and I do a LOT of that! I'll do my best to try and stop by at least once a day, but no promises.

As soon as the new 7G PDPs are in the stores (Pioneer-branded first, Elite later), I'll be more than willing and able to help with any questions. For now I'll devote myself to 6G and earlier PDP questions.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

I have one question about the 6G that has been bugging me for what seems like eternity, "Is the scaler/deinterlacer in the elites the same as the pioneer branded PDP's".

[Kampfer]

I just displayed the 4271" at work, and I borrowed the manual home, just ask me in the other thread if you need to know anything.

[lab1234]

[QUOTE=Kampfer]I just displayed the 4271" at work, and I borrowed the manual home, just ask me in the other thread if you need to know anything.[/QUOTE]

Where do you live?

[Kampfer]

pasadena

[JAGCGator]

[QUOTE=torch]I have one question about the 6G that has been bugging me for what seems like eternity, "Is the scaler/deinterlacer in the elites the same as the pioneer branded PDP's".[/QUOTE]



I'm trying to choose between the PRO-1130HD and the PDP-5070. Please help!
Thanks

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=torch]I have one question about the 6G that has been bugging me for what seems like eternity, "Is the scaler/deinterlacer in the elites the same as the pioneer branded PDP's".[/QUOTE]


That's a great question! They used to be marginally different in the past, but I will confirm whether or not they are different on the newest generation of panels.

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=JAGCGator]I'm trying to choose between the PRO-1130HD and the PDP-5070. Please help!
Thanks[/QUOTE]

What price can you get the 1130 for? That's the real question.

I am placed in a tricky position in answering you directly. Regardless of who the dealer is, I have no wish to possibly have him lose a sale for either product by influencing you one way or the other (that's why most dealers don't like it when reps talk to their customers). Put yourself in his shoes. If you compare the specs of the 1130 at the Pioneer Electronics (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com) website with those you find for the 5070 in this thread and others, you will be able to reach your decision quickly enough.

If the price is right, even I wouldn't hesitate to purchase the 1130. It's a fantastic display. You wouldn't be sorry.

[Cleveland Plasma]

Last I heard that is the main and most important difference between the Pioneer Elite and the Pioneer Consumer is the scaler/deinterlacer. There are other differences, but the main one that effects PQ is the scaler/deinterlacer.

[Cleveland Plasma]

[QUOTE=JAGCGator]I'm trying to choose between the PRO-1130HD and the PDP-5070. Please help!
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Why pick??? Have both for the same price. When the KEY card is added to the CMX watch out! It has a picture quality of an Elite for alot less, less than the new 5070HD for that matter. If you are one of the people who say "Oh that is a 5th generation Panel" then wait for the 507CMX, but for now look at this:

Pioneer PDP-505CMX (Click Here) (http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/ims/product/overview/0,,196140362_285715230,00.html)
http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3430/289698945PDP-505CMX_angled_std.jpg (http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/ims/product/overview/0,,196140362_285715230,00.html)

Add the Key Digital Xplorer Card and you will be in heaven. Click Here (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=)

http://www.keydigital.com/images/Video%20Processors/HD_Xplorer_v2_a.jpg (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=)
This setup [COLOR=DarkRed]WILL[/COLOR] run you less than a new [COLOR=DarkRed]5070HD [/COLOR] even thru the NET from an authorized reseller !! Not to mention there is no other panel on the planet with these kinds of inputs:
4 hdmi (supports HDCP), DVI(supports HDCP), 2-VGA, Component, Composite, S-Video...WOW. Don't forget on the commercial panels there are [COLOR=RED]NO[/COLOR] authorized resellers, any company can sell a person one, however on the Key card they must be authorized.

[koan]

Pioneer Trainer, another question - do the new (7G) Pioneer-branded consumer models have Pure mode as claimed in Pioneer's brochure? It has been reported in another thread that the BB models do not.

[yobob]

It is hard to believe that the BB model would be lacking a feature. They usually add something.

[koan]

[QUOTE=yobob]It is hard to believe that the BB model would be lacking a feature. They usually add something.[/QUOTE]I believe they added a second, simpler, remote. If it's the case the new 7G models (BB & non-BB) do not have Pure mode as previously announced, it would be interesting to hear why Pioneer removed the feature.

[paris_tn]

Thanks Cleve Plasma. I like what you showed in the key digital explorer card. When is the 50" plasma suppose to be out with this new digital key card? I am very excitted about the possibilities here.

[paris_tn]

I found a review of the PDP-505CMX.

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/pioneer_pdp-505cmx_plasma_hd_monitor_review.htm

[zaracsan]

[QUOTE=paris_tn]I found a review of the PDP-505CMX.

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/pioneer_pdp-505cmx_plasma_hd_monitor_review.htm[/QUOTE]

Nice review. The comparison photos really do a good job of pointing out some of the more subtle PQ differences and should be of help to those trying to better understand what makes one display better than another.

[Cleveland Plasma]

[QUOTE=paris_tn]Thanks Cleve Plasma. I like what you showed in the key digital explorer card. When is the 50" plasma suppose to be out with this new digital key card?[/QUOTE]
September...507CMX. I 'll tell you add that card to a 505CMX and you will have one hell of a panel !!

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=Cleveland Plasma]Why pick??? Have both for the same price. When the KEY card is added to the CMX watch out! It has a picture quality of an Elite for alot less, less than the new 5070HD for that matter. If you are one of the people who say "Oh that is a 5th generation Panel" then wait for the 507CMX, but for now look at this:

Pioneer PDP-505CMX (Click Here) (http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/ims/product/overview/0,,196140362_285715230,00.html)
http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3430/289698945PDP-505CMX_angled_std.jpg (http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/ims/product/overview/0,,196140362_285715230,00.html)

Add the Key Digital Xplorer Card and you will be in heaven. Click Here (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=)

http://www.keydigital.com/images/Video%20Processors/HD_Xplorer_v2_a.jpg (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=HDXplorer&productname=)
This setup [COLOR=DarkRed]WILL[/COLOR] run you less than a new [COLOR=DarkRed]5070HD [/COLOR] even thru the NET from an authorized reseller !! Not to mention there is no other panel on the planet with these kinds of inputs:
4 hdmi (supports HDCP), DVI(supports HDCP), 2-VGA, Component, Composite, S-Video...WOW. Don't forget on the commercial panels there are [COLOR=RED]NO[/COLOR] authorized resellers, any company can sell a person one, however on the Key card they must be authorized.[/QUOTE]


There are significant improvements to the 7G series over the 6G series. In this particular case, it goes beyond processing and enters into physical improvements to the glass and phosphors. Buying a 6G industrial PDP and installing a Key card might give you a better processing engine than ships with a 6G panel, but it would not give you a better picture than a 7G panel.

[platypus]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]There are significant improvements to the 7G series over the 6G series. In this particular case, it goes beyond processing and enters into physical improvements to the glass and phosphors. Buying a 6G industrial PDP and installing a Key card might give you a better processing engine than ships with a 6G panel, but it would not give you a better picture than a 7G panel.[/QUOTE]

So Pioneer Trainer, it sounds like I can infer from your comments that given the opportunity, I should return my 4361 and exchange it for a 4271 assuming that picture quality is my #1 criteria. I dread the hassle of having to go through this (still within my 30-day return window though), but would hate to know that I could have gotten better PQ for my hard-earned dollars. And from reading other posts on this forum, I can see that I'm not the only one debating this decision...

[Pioneer Trainer]

[QUOTE=koan]Pioneer Trainer, another question - do the new (7G) Pioneer-branded consumer models have Pure mode as claimed in Pioneer's brochure? It has been reported in another thread that the BB models do not.[/QUOTE]

Pure Mode should only be available as a step-up feature on the Elite panels.

FYI, for those of you who aren't familiar with Pure Mode, it bypasses the scaler/deinterlacer in the panel in favor of an outboard scaler/deinterlacer. Granted, the one we have inside our panels was designed specifically for those panels, but we have to keep a certain price-point in mind when we do, so there are a number of superior (and vastly more expensive) outboard scaler/deinterlacers available on the market for the purists (hence the "Pure" name).

[ssmobin]

I was in the same boat, well I was debating between the 1130 and waiting for the 1140.

But since the 1140 doesnt have a MR, and wont be available for 2-3 months I decided to go with the 1130. If you get an 1130 ISF calibrated you cant really go wrong. Plus I am not sure how much the 1140 will cost and how long the 1130's will be available.

Those were the driving factors for me choosing the 1130. Good luck with your purchase! :)
[QUOTE=JAGCGator]I'm trying to choose between the PRO-1130HD and the PDP-5070. Please help!
Thanks[/QUOTE]

[kosh2258]

I have question regarding the 1130's B antenna input.
The specs say its an NTSC only input whereas the the A antenna input is ATSC/NTSC. I assume the B input is also cable ready (QAM), but does the CableCARD also work on that input or is it limited to the A input only?

That's not very clearly spelled out on the product brochure. I'm trying to judge the implications of this when analog goes dark in 2009.

[SrPicman]

Pioneer Trainer -

I'm confused: If I'm in "Pure" on my 1130 (connected to cable via SA8300HD set to 1080i), where does the de-interlacing/scaling occur if "Pure" bypasses the panel processes? Is there a separate de-interlacer/scaler in the MR? I also find "Pure" to provide the most appealing PQ.

Thanks,
SrPicman

[rmb1035]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]Pure Mode should only be available as a step-up feature on the Elite panels.

FYI, for those of you who aren't familiar with Pure Mode, it bypasses the scaler/deinterlacer in the panel in favor of an outboard scaler/deinterlacer. [/QUOTE]
Pioneer Trainer,

Actually I believe that Pure mode on the Elite models is available whether you're using the "inboard" scaler/deinterlacer in the panel or whether you're using an outboard processer. Maybe you meant to say that it is used "most often" in conjunction with an outboard scaler/deinterlacer where the panel is being fed a progressive native rate signal.

[dicey]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]Pure Mode should only be available as a step-up feature on the Elite panels.

FYI, for those of you who aren't familiar with Pure Mode, it bypasses the scaler/deinterlacer in the panel in favor of an outboard scaler/deinterlacer. Granted, the one we have inside our panels was designed specifically for those panels, but we have to keep a certain price-point in mind when we do, so there are a number of superior (and vastly more expensive) outboard scaler/deinterlacers available on the market for the purists (hence the "Pure" name).[/QUOTE]
If my understanding is correct, the Pure mode re-positions the RGB color points exactly to the Rec. 701 (HD) color primaries. In all the other picture modes, the HD color primaries are "overspec-ed" to give the color a more 'vivid' appearance. The 1130's manual barely mentions the Pure mode, but this was all reported in The Perfect Vision.
As far as syncing to an outboard processor, I'm not sure if the Pure mode is used for this or not. I don't think the manual even mentions this as an option, even though some of Pioneers' press releases have promised this feature. I think its an option in the ISF mode but you have to enter a special code to access it. I could definitely be wrong, though. ;)

[D-Nice]

FYI....

Here is the owners manual for the FHD-1 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/315642740PROFHD1OperatingInstructions.pdf)

[JAGCGator]

[QUOTE=platypus]So Pioneer Trainer, it sounds like I can infer from your comments that given the opportunity, I should return my 4361 and exchange it for a 4271 assuming that picture quality is my #1 criteria. I dread the hassle of having to go through this (still within my 30-day return window though), but would hate to know that I could have gotten better PQ for my hard-earned dollars. And from reading other posts on this forum, I can see that I'm not the only one debating this decision...[/QUOTE]


I think the 4371 costs less than the 6G, so unless you're avoiding the 7G because there's no MR, why not switch?

[JAGCGator]

[QUOTE=Pioneer Trainer]There are significant improvements to the 7G series over the 6G series. In this particular case, it goes beyond processing and enters into physical improvements to the glass and phosphors. Buying a 6G industrial PDP and installing a Key card might give you a better processing engine than ships with a 6G panel, but it would not give you a better picture than a 7G panel.[/QUOTE]


Here's the rub... the 5071 is about 800-1000 less than the 1130. What will I gain or lose by going with the 5071 over the Elite, or vice versa? I'd love to pull the trigger this weekend. Thanks everyone for all the comments.

[tdavis21484]

Early reports have been that there isn't much of a noticable improvement in PQ over the 6th generation sets - that's a fact of life for a technology like Plasma. It's been around long enough that any advances from here on out will likely be incremental and therefore subtle.

Personally, if I were you, I'd keep the Elite - avoid the hassle, and take pride in that nice "Elite" nameplate in your house :)

[platypus]

[QUOTE=JAGCGator]I think the 4371 costs less than the 6G, so unless you're avoiding the 7G because there's no MR, why not switch?[/QUOTE]
I picked up my 4361 a couple of weeks ago when BB was closing them out, so the price was pretty good. Plus, it gave me the ability to do a local return if it came down to that. The MR is nice, but I could live without it since I plan on table top mounting the display. However, I would like to keep the option of wall mounting it sometime down the road. I also will be removing the speakers and using the Energy C-2s from my 5.1 system. That makes the 4361 more sleek since I won't have a speaker hanging off the bottom as would be the case with the 4271. My problem is that I tend to agonize over these things when I'm sure that whatever decision I'll make, I'll be content with it.

[ChopOMatic]

Rolf, can you offer any details on 1080p inputs on the new Elite 50 panel?

Thanks...

Chop

[Ironmike86]

Question? Is the PDP 4271 HD a new model? I can't find them on the Pioneers webpage. I just went to Best Buy SAT to buy a Panny but the little lady didn't like the siver. I came home with a PDP 4271 without researching like I did with the Panny. But I figure Pioneer and I have 30day to exchange if it's not up to par. But it looks good to me.

[billybob_jcv]

Yup - there is a big thread here on the 7th gen Pioneers. The 4271 & 5071 are the BestBuy versions of the 4270 & 5070 (same exact display - just diff accessories). Very good reports so far on the new Pioneers - good choice!

[D-Nice]

4271 = 4070 = 7G Pioneers = New Models

[DigsMovies]

[QUOTE=Ironmike86]Question? Is the PDP 4271 HD a new model? I can't find them on the Pioneers webpage. I just went to Best Buy SAT to buy a Panny but the little lady didn't like the siver. I came home with a PDP 4271 without researching like I did with the Panny. But I figure Pioneer and I have 30day to exchange if it's not up to par. But it looks good to me.[/QUOTE]

Good Job! Looks better AND better Looking! :D

enjoy

[naturr]

I have looked at the new 4271 in three stores with the ability to adjust the settings and in a side by side comparison with a Sharp D90 the 4271 has very poor black performance. The 4271 was on the Toshiba BluRay player and the Sharp had some fairly crappy 50 DVD player, the 4360 varied from $500 Nads and Pioneer players.

From my viewing experience the 4360 beats the D90 noticeably but the 4271 sure seems to have taken a step down form what I have seen. For example during the movie the Incredibles when Mr. I is sneaking back into the HQ he is looking down on a cliff before jumping over it. Looks like this:

4360: 95% vegetation below edge of cliff visible in the shadows
D90: 85% of vegetation only the far left and right is black
4271: 50% All but the centre is dark with the sides being utterly devoid of detail

Now none of these places had the best lighting conditions and the LCD thus with it's brighter screen had an advantage because of the light levels. Now is this a tweakable feature has anyone else noticed this? One possible reason is with the cost cutting of the MR box removal that putting the scaling and the likes in the TV that the quality is not the same anymore. Competition is always good for price but not necessarily product performance. Companies base decisions on what makes the most profit not what makes the best product, sometimes these are one and the same.

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=naturr]I have looked at the new 4271 in three stores with the ability to adjust the settings and in a side by side comparison with a Sharp D90 the 4271 has very poor black performance. The 4271 was on the Toshiba BluRay player and the Sharp had some fairly crappy 50 DVD player, the 4360 varied from $500 Nads and Pioneer players.

From my viewing experience the 4360 beats the D90 noticeably but the 4271 sure seems to have taken a step down form what I have seen. For example during the movie the Incredibles when Mr. I is sneaking back into the HQ he is looking down on a cliff before jumping over it. Looks like this:

4360: 95% vegetation below edge of cliff visible in the shadows
D90: 85% of vegetation only the far left and right is black
4271: 50% All but the centre is dark with the sides being utterly devoid of detail

Now none of these places had the best lighting conditions and the LCD thus with it's brighter screen had an advantage because of the light levels. Now is this a tweakable feature has anyone else noticed this? One possible reason is with the cost cutting of the MR box removal that putting the scaling and the likes in the TV that the quality is not the same anymore. Competition is always good for price but not necessarily product performance. Companies base decisions on what makes the most profit not what makes the best product, sometimes these are one and the same.[/QUOTE]

You need to compensate for the lighting environment. Try boosting the brightness between +3 and +5.

[naturr]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]You need to compensate for the lighting environment. Try boosting the brightness between +3 and +5.[/QUOTE]
Actually I did get a chance to play with the brightness at one place and bumped it up to 80%, the D90 right beside it still bested it! Do you have this set D-Nice? How do you think it compares to the 4360?

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=naturr]Actually I did get a chance to play with the brightness at one place and bumped it up to 80%, the D90 right beside it still bested it! Do you have this set D-Nice? How do you think it comparesit to the 4360?[/QUOTE]

I do not own this set. However, I've seen this set numerous times at BB and have not seen the issue you have. Do you remember all of the settings you used?

[naturr]

I set it to to standard and and adjusted the brightness level only. I also swapped through all the presets. Has anyone seen this panlel perform as well as the 4360?

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=naturr]I set it to to standard and and adjusted the brightness level only.[/QUOTE]

I see......you need to play with alot more than the brightness. On your next visit try these settings:

Main Menu
AV Selection: User
Contrast: 43
Brightness: +3 or +4
Color: -6
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -2

Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: ADV

Color Detail
Color Temp: Low

CTI: Off

NR
DNR: Off
MPEG NR: Low

[RBurgundy]

[QUOTE=naturr]I set it to to standard and and adjusted the brightness level only. I also swapped through all the presets. Has anyone seen this panlel perform as well as the 4360?[/QUOTE]I've seen both. I'd say that both were pretty equal given the environment I saw them in. 4271 seemed to have blacker blacks and whiter whites, but given it was in a different section of the store it was hard to tell. Plus I don't think you can easily determine if one is better than the other unless you have both sets in a controlled environment.

naturr, Maybe it was the "Toshiba BluRay player"? or don't you mean Samsung Blu-ray player?

[naturr]

D-Nice I shall slip down there this weekend and try those settings out. Does the 4270 just need more adjusting than the 4360? The 4360 seems pretty darn good in every store I have seen it in without any adjustment.

RBurgundy I could be off on the blueray Player Brand, I shall confirm that when I visit. I agree you can't easily confirm if one is better IF they are closely matched but so far I would have picked the Sharp D90 LCD over this panel for black levels and that just doesn't seem right.

[naturr]

I just spoke to a high end store here in Toronto where the people actually know what they are talking about (I won't name names as I don't want to cause them grief with Pioneer PM if you need to know) and when I asked them about the 4270 and the black levels in comparison to the 4360 and the D90 I was told "You are correct it is actually a step down from the previous version and we have actually been telling our clients to go with the 4360 if they can".

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=naturr]I just spoke to a high end store here in Toronto where the people actually know what they are talking about (I won't name names as I don't want to cause them grief with Pioneer PM if you need to know) and when I asked them about the 4270 and the black levels in comparison to the 4360 and the D90 I was told "You are correct it is actually a step down from the previous version and we have actually been telling our clients to go with the 4360 if they can".[/QUOTE]

Interesting. So it's crushing blacks. I'll take another look at them on tomorrows BB visit.

[johnsojs]

I agree, I saw the same thing comparing a 4360 and a 5070. Older model looks better to me.