Top of the line plasma, money is no object

[fndngemo]

I've been asked by my very wealthy father to pick out a tv for his new apartment. He wants a flat panel display and given the room size I'd say something between 42-50" would be best. He told me, and I quote, "don't worry about how much it costs, we want the best." So here I am asking for your suggestions. The tv will be used only for cable and watching DVD's, he doesn't play video games at all. I warned him about burn in and he didn't seem to concerned, so I'm thinking plasma. Thanks in advance to all who respond.

[HT_Aaron]

Does he plan on wall mounting it or using a table stand? I'd suggest looking into the new Pioneer PDP5070HD or the current NEC 50XR5A. They both have excellent PQ, and have been known for their vibrant + true to life colors. Plus they both have 2 HDMI inputs so he can connect an HD cable box and DVD player through digital connections.

[tdavis21484]

Assuming performance is all that matters, not color of bezel, etc, here's my list:

1) 50" Fujitsu
2) 50" NEC
3) 50" Pioneer Elite
4) 50" Panasonic 600U

If price is no object, and he's sitting more than 8 feet away, get the 50" size.

[c627627]

Fujitsu
Marantz
Runco

if $ is no object.

Panasonic, if it is.

[fndngemo]

he's not sure whether he's wall mounting or not. they have a nice stand right now but they might still decide to wall mount it. Color of the bezel doesn't matter, all the cares about is performance. He's torn between 42" and 50" (he kinda wants 50" but my step mom wants 42") so suggestions for both would be great. Thanks :)

[madshi]

If money is no object get the brand new Pioneer FHD1. The Pioneer is just coming out these days. According to reports I've read it should have great image quality. Many considered it best of plasma at CES 2006.

[videosolutions]

Vidikron PlasmaView VP-60

http://vidikron.com/vp60.html

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=madshi]If money is no object get the brand new Pioneer FHD1. The Pioneer is just coming out these days. According to reports I've read it should have great image quality. Many considered it best of plasma at CES 2006.[/QUOTE]

Ooh, good point :) forgot that one.

I didn't mention Marantz or Runco in my listings because I haven't seen them with my own eyes, but I hear they are fantastic as well.

[billybob_jcv]

Get an external scaler - it will make as much (or more) of a difference as the specific brand of display.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=billybob_jcv]Get an external scaler - it will make as much (or more) of a difference as the specific brand of display.[/QUOTE]
Well, get an external scaler *and* the best in class plasma. Again the Pioneer FHD1 should be spectecular. It allows native rate in with all 24Hz, 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz. That makes it a perfect partner for e.g. a Crystalio II video processor.

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=billybob_jcv]Get an external scaler - it will make as much (or more) of a difference as the specific brand of display.[/QUOTE]

Depends on how nice of a display you bought - Runco, Fujitsu, and NEC, to name a few are highly respected for their scaling and processing capabilities.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=tdavis21484]Depends on how nice of a display you bought - Runco, Fujitsu, and NEC, to name a few are highly respected for their scaling and processing capabilities.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about Runco, but neither Fujitsu nor NEC can compete with top of the line external video processors. E.g. Fujitsu doesn't even do proper inverse telecine for PAL SD film! Let's not even talk about HD processing.

[MSAGRO]

Go with the 50". Most everyone I know that bought the 42" plazmas regretted buying it and wished for the bigger one.

My personal choice would be the 60U Panny, I have been quite pleased with it.

[plazman]

[QUOTE=tdavis21484]Assuming performance is all that matters, not color of bezel, etc, here's my list:

1) 50" Fujitsu
2) 50" NEC
3) 50" Pioneer Elite
4) 50" Panasonic 600U

If price is no object, and he's sitting more than 8 feet away, get the 50" size.[/QUOTE]

I'll second this!

[QUADHD]

The two 1080P plasmas supposedly out in the next couple months the Pioneer FHD1 50" and the Panasonic 65" should both be in the $8-10K range. And get them a Toshiba HD A1 HD DVD player to go with it. very good upscaling for dvd and of course the HD DVD quality to feed one of those bad boys. What a good son you will be to them:)

A Pansonic 50px600u would be around $3.5K and he probably would never know any difference.

Money can matter even when someone tells you it doesn't. My mom told me and my brother to pick her out a car. and money didn't matter to her either. We picked her out a nice E class Mercedes at $45K, we could have picked a S class at $90K+. Well she picked a Mercury Grand Marquis instead, wrote them a check and was happy.

Sit your dad down and discuss it a little with him, see if he will go with you to view sets or if not then at least you narrow it down what he wants.

[tneal]

I know there is a lot of Panasonic love here and don't get me wrong, I like them also. But, if money wasn't a factor, there is no way I would buy one over a Fujitsu. My list would be

Fujitsu
Pio elite
Runco

I don't know if looks are a factor also as these are 3 of the best looking bezels that I have seen.

[billybob_jcv]

I love guys who say "we want the best". Tally-up the total for a FHD1, external VP, BR or HD-DVD player, and an ISF calibration and see what he says.

Of course, if you're going to go there, you can't forget the audio! How about a nice set of separates for power & prepro (Rotel, Lexicon, Anthem, Arcam, etc) plus a set of speakers (Paradigm Signature, Magnepan, Vandersteen, etc) and, of course, a subwoofer (SVS, Servodrive, Genelec, etc).

But wait! Did you say an apartment? I hope it's a big one, because unless he has a dedicated HT room he's going to be disappointed if he wants the "best". Of course, if he has a dedicated HT, he should be looking at a 1080p front projector, not a flat panel. Then room treatments, theater seating, bass transducers, a wet bar and munchies - he needs much more if he wants "the best"!

:rolleyes:

[plazman]

[QUOTE=billybob_jcv]I love guys who say "we want the best". Tally-up the total for a FHD1, external VP, BR or HD-DVD player, and an ISF calibration and see what he says.

Of course, if you're going to go there, you can't forget the audio! How about a nice set of separates for power & prepro (Rotel, Lexicon, Anthem, Arcam, etc) plus a set of speakers (Paradigm Signature, Magnepan, Vandersteen, etc) and, of course, a subwoofer (SVS, Servodrive, Genelec, etc).

But wait! Did you say an apartment? I hope it's a big one, because unless he has a dedicated HT room he's going to be disappointed if he wants the "best". Of course, if he has a dedicated HT, he should be looking at a 1080p front projector, not a flat panel. Then room treatments, theater seating, bass transducers, a wet bar and munchies - he needs much more if he wants "the best"!

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

OK. On second thoughts here is my top list:

1. Pio FHD1 - score: 10/10
2. Fujitsu - score: 8/10
3. Pio Elite - score: 8/10

Anything else is a compromise (IMHO). I believe the Runco is an NEC OEM.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=plazman]OK. On second thoughts here is my top list:

1. Pio FHD1 - score: 10/10
2. Fujitsu - score: 8/10
3. Pio Elite - score: 8/10

Anything else is a compromise (IMHO). I believe the Runco is an NEC OEM.[/QUOTE]
I think I can second that. I've not seen any reviews of the Pio FHD1 yet, but reports have been *very* positive. Maybe it would be worth waiting a few days/weeks to see whether any real reviews show up, just to be sure, though.

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=plazman]I believe the Runco is an NEC OEM.[/QUOTE]

It is, but with a different scaler, I believe. Mitsubishi's plasmas are straight rebadges of NEC's Showcase series, menu, remote and all.

If you can, I would have a look at the NECs. They're not the end all be all best, but they're dang close, and the best for the money, IMHO.

Of course I own an NEC, but I own one because I believe it's the best - I don't believe it's the best because I own one. An important distinction to make, I think, ;)

[zaracsan]

[QUOTE=madshi]Well, get an external scaler *and* the best in class plasma. Again the Pioneer FHD1 should be spectecular. It allows native rate in with all 24Hz, 48Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz. That makes it a perfect partner for e.g. a Crystalio II video processor.[/QUOTE]

Skip the external scaler; get an Anthem Statement D2 pre/pro to go with the Pioneer FHD1; that would be my vote.

[Bear5k]

[QUOTE=zaracsan]Skip the external scaler; get an Anthem Statement D2 pre/pro to go with the Pioneer FHD1; that would be my vote.[/QUOTE]
...which would be just like skipping the external scaler how? :p The D2 is a top notch pre/pro AND a top-notch scaler from the early reports of its performance. It is also $6k+ (aka more than all but the FHD1). You can also get abou 98%+ of the performance from the AVM-50, depending upon the rest of the set-up. The critical question is whether they want "a TV" or they want "a theater". If the former, then get them the best all-in-one unit you can find. If the latter, then we can talk about accessorizing. My guess, though, is that the OP's mother's stress level will climb exponentially with each new box brought into the house.

Later,
Bill

[IamAnoobieCheez]

For me, it's either:

Acura NSX (with special modification by dealer)

or

Pioneer Pro-FHD1 1080p plasma


I would say Fujitsu p50xha40us plasmavision avm2 would be the third op...

[zaracsan]

[QUOTE=Bear5k]...which would be just like skipping the external scaler how? :p The D2 is a top notch pre/pro AND a top-notch scaler from the early reports of its performance. It is also $6k+ (aka more than all but the FHD1). You can also get abou 98%+ of the performance from the AVM-50, depending upon the rest of the set-up. The critical question is whether they want "a TV" or they want "a theater". If the former, then get them the best all-in-one unit you can find. If the latter, then we can talk about accessorizing. My guess, though, is that the OP's mother's stress level will climb exponentially with each new box brought into the house.

Later,
Bill[/QUOTE]

No doubt the AVM-50 is the value in the Anthem lineup, for those that want the Gennum image processor on the (relative) cheap. However, if I'm getting to do my surrogate spending though the OP's well-healed father (who wants "the best"), then I'm going to suggest he pony up for the other 2% of performance. I feel certain the D1 to D2 [Hey now, even the alpha numeric sequence is pure kismet!] combo would be nothing less than stunning!! Ain't it grand, spending other peoples money!! :D

[styvo]

[QUOTE=fndngemo]he's not sure whether he's wall mounting or not. they have a nice stand right now but they might still decide to wall mount it. Color of the bezel doesn't matter, all the cares about is performance. He's torn between 42" and 50" (he kinda wants 50" but my step mom wants 42") so suggestions for both would be great. Thanks :)[/QUOTE]

Go BIG or go home.... haha

[fndngemo]

lol, well I went to him with some suggestions and it sounds like step-mom wasn't too happy about the total cost. I've now been asked to find the "best" TV out there for around $5k. Thanks for all the help guys.

*edit* What do you guys think about the Fujitsu P42XTA51US? I know it's only 42" as opposed to 50", but it's right at there $5,000 target price.

[malaugh]

Does the $5K budget include a sound system and DVD player?

Think about getting a "balanced system", spend around 3K on the display, $300 on the DVD player, and $1K on the surround sound. I'm sure some people may say that you should spend more on the surround sound. Some suggestions.

TV - Panasonic 50PX60U or Pioneer 5070 50" plasma
DVD - Denon 1920 or oppo 971
Surround sound - Yamaha YSP-800

[ssabripo]

[QUOTE=plazman]OK. On second thoughts here is my top list:

1. Pio FHD1 - score: 10/10
2. Fujitsu - score: 8/10
3. Pio Elite - score: 8/10

Anything else is a compromise (IMHO). I believe the Runco is an NEC OEM.[/QUOTE]
this man knoweth the troof! :p :D

[billybob_jcv]

Ha! I knew it - there aren't very many people who can really say the cost doesn't matter. I have actually known a couple of people in that category - but they both had very expensive AV consultants who designed and built their very, very cool home theater rooms, and in one case, it was a combination HT, band stage & mixing studio. You could watch a movie or, raise the screen, pick-up a Les Paul & jam. ;)

[Tditti]

[QUOTE=billybob_jcv]Ha! I knew it - there aren't very many people who can really say the cost doesn't matter. I have actually known a couple of people in that category - but they both had very expensive AV consultants who designed and built their very, very cool home theater rooms, and in one case, it was a combination HT, band stage & mixing studio. You could watch a movie or, raise the screen, pick-up a Les Paul & jam. ;)[/QUOTE]

I was in the HT room of the founder of Amway once. Let's just say, yea, billionaires can build really cool stuff.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=fndngemo]*edit* What do you guys think about the Fujitsu P42XTA51US? I know it's only 42" as opposed to 50", but it's right at there $5,000 target price.[/QUOTE]
I believe the 42" Fujitus has a not so good black level compared to the 50" display. If you're on a budget, you might want to look at the Panasonics. I think they offer the best bang for the buck.

[Influence]

[QUOTE=madshi]I believe the 42" Fujitus has a not so good black level compared to the 50" display. If you're on a budget, you might want to look at the Panasonics. I think they offer the best bang for the buck.[/QUOTE]

The XTA51US/UB (black bezel) models are using the panasonic panels now. Last year's 40 series 42" panel had a 1024x1024 resolution indicating the Hitachi sourced ALiS panel. The new 51 series has a 1024x768 resolution, indicating the use of the Panasonic panel. From a direct comparison of the new 42" Fuji, 50" Fuji (which I should have in my possesion by next week in the new black bezel), 50" Pioneer Elite 1130, 42" Pioneer Elite 930, and 50" Runco, I actually think that the new 42" Fuji had the best overall picture of them all, followed closely by the 50" Fuji and 50" Runco. While I prefer the overall look of the 50" Fuji to the 50" Runco (which uses a Pioneer panel in it's current 50" models 1280x768 resolution and 43" models- check it out) as it is objectively sharper to my eyes, the color rendition on the Runco's is simply stunning, very similar to the Pioneer Elites in Pure mode. The Fuji's have a slight red push out of the box, though that can be cured through calibration. The Pioneer Elites are not too far behind the Fuji's and Runco's, and I was torn between the 50" Elite and the 50" Fujitsu. Overall, the Fujitsu is just a good bit closer to the overall picture of my beloved Sony 34XBR960 CRT set (which frankly bests ANY plasma on the market today from a pure picture quality perspective) , so that was the deciding factor for me.

For your 5K, I would recommend either the 42" Fuji, or tell you to go find a 50" Pioneer Elite. With some negotiating, you should be able to get the Elite for 5K out the door from an authorized dealer. Even Magnolia will do 10% off an Elite or price match a Tweeter. your deciding factor on the 42 versus 50" should be viewing distance. How far from the TV screen will the seating areas be? As others here are saying, sometimes there is no substitute for size, so you might be better off going for a 50" set.

Even after extensive calibration, I would not put the new consumer Panasonic sets (at least the 60 series, haven't seen a 600 series yet) in the same league as the Runco or Fujitsus. They are closer to the Elites, but to my eyes, still a step down in overall PQ. And the aesthetics of the new Panasonics are just piss poor to me. The 600 series is noticeably better, but still not up to the level of the Elites/Fujis (now available in gloss black!) or Runco (still my favorite with the brushed black anodized aluminum bezel - less light reflection than the gloss black Fuji or Elite).

[Ken Ross]

FWIW, Fujitsus are now available in a glossy black frame just like the Pioneers. I wasn't aware of that until a few days ago.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Influence]The XTA51US/UB (black bezel) models are using the panasonic panels now. Last year's 40 series 42" panel had a 1024x1024 resolution indicating the Hitachi sourced ALiS panel. The new 51 series has a 1024x768 resolution, indicating the use of the Panasonic panel.[/QUOTE]
Cool - thanks for the correction!

[fndngemo]

I don't think he has any intentions of adding surround sound at this point. He lives in an apartment in Manhattan so he doesn't have the space to really make a home theater room. I think right now all he is concerned about is the TV. After that I'm sure he'll be getting a decent upconverting dvd player or a HDDVD player. For right now however the $5k budget is for TV only.

[howe]

[QUOTE=Ken Ross]FWIW, Fujitsus are now available in a glossy black frame just like the Pioneers. I wasn't aware of that until a few days ago.[/QUOTE]
Plasma TVs are great in most aspects but one drawback is how prone they are to ambient light reflections. Solution #1: make the room pitch black. However, one gets eye fatigue if there isn't at least some lighting not to mention the potential for eye damage. Theaters have lighting from sconces and the like during the performance. Luckily, projection screens aren't reflective. Solution #2: Use uplights (can style) behind the screen similar to the Phillips Ambilight feature. However, when your just watching the news or the like, and its daytime, do you want make things so dark you can't see that fly on your pizza?

Now, I digress. Plasma has killer PQ so we deal with other factors. Every hard material has an index of reflectivity. As a designer of the bezel of a TV set or display, shouldn't it be a directive, on a plasma to use a material that has a low index of reflectivity such as a matt finish? Afterall, you do not want the viewer to be distracted from what the device does. In this case you want the viewer to enjoy the picture displayed. What's up with making a high gloss black bezel on a large video display that has a very high index?

I concur that high gloss black is classy. In the right application such as a piano it lends a feeling of prestige and quality. But, there are places you shouldn't go that route. What if the top of your car's dash board was glossy black? Yeah, that'd be a selling point. :rolleyes:

I understand Pioneer's long heritage in gloss black. The Elite series of components goes back 20 years and the gloss black was used on laserdisc players, receivers, CD players, ect. and the gear looked great in your rack. Poor choice for a display bezel though.

I know many people seem to like the gloss black on Pioneers, Samsungs, and the like but for me it was one of the reasons I side stepped these brands other plusses considered. Every time I see one my eye catches reflections off the bezel more so than the glass itself. I understand the "slick" factor appeal of gloss black but not a good choice for display bezels. ;)

[Ken Ross]

Howe, I agree with you on one point and disagree on another. I do agree about the glossy black frames and frankly I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it with regards to the Pioneer. We have one very outspoken LCD worshipper who always talks about reflections from plasmas. Yet he never seems to be bothered by the black glossy frame of his LCD. Go figure. But I did notice this the other day at BB when I was looking at Blu-Ray. I saw the very vivid reflections coming off of the black frame of a Pioneer.

As to watching in the dark, I disagree with you on that point. You can't 'damage' your eyes by watching in the dark. Is it possible to get eye fatigue? Perhaps, but it's never happened to me and it's more a function of whether you've got your display in 'torch mode' or not. I'm sure people have varying degree of sensitivity to watching a display in the dark, but it's the only way I would do serious viewing. It's also one of the reasons I dislike LCDs for critical viewing. They're great in bright light, but in the dark their poor blacks show through. Additionally, you recover from eye fatigue. Theaters have some degree of ambient lighting more for safety purposes than anything else.

[malaugh]

Glossy Frames

I am an owner of a Pioneer Elite Plasma, and have never had a problem with the glossy black frame, the way the light catches it in a darkened room does not cause reflections. I would think that the lighter colors used by other manufacturers would be more of a problem, but I have never seen one in someones living room so I cannot be sure.

Surround Sound

If you do not have surround sound you are missing half the "movie like" experience you get with a plasma. If you are short of space, check out a Yamaha YSP-800. Its a combination amplifier and surround sound in a single unit that fits under the plasma TV. Search for YSP-1 is the audio section of AV forum and you will find it.

[bvader]

I Charge $225/hr to read and compile results from AVS Forum.
You can PM me when your ready. :D

[howe]

[QUOTE=Ken Ross]Howe, I agree with you on one point and disagree on another. I do agree about the glossy black frames and frankly I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it with regards to the Pioneer. We have one very outspoken LCD worshipper who always talks about reflections from plasmas. Yet he never seems to be bothered by the black glossy frame of his LCD. Go figure. But I did notice this the other day at BB when I was looking at Blu-Ray. I saw the very vivid reflections coming off of the black frame of a Pioneer.

As to watching in the dark, I disagree with you on that point. You can't 'damage' your eyes by watching in the dark. Is it possible to get eye fatigue? Perhaps, but it's never happened to me and it's more a function of whether you've got your display in 'torch mode' or not. I'm sure people have varying degree of sensitivity to watching a display in the dark, but it's the only way I would do serious viewing. It's also one of the reasons I dislike LCDs for critical viewing. They're great in bright light, but in the dark their poor blacks show through. Additionally, you recover from eye fatigue. Theaters have some degree of ambient lighting more for safety purposes than anything else.[/QUOTE]

You may remember the early days of television and the now kitch "TV Lamps." People were advised to have at least one small lamp on in the room with a TV to avoid eye strain. Albeit, with modern flat screens and the ability to control the sets with "cinema" settings this may be less of an issue. However, if the room lighting is controlled and dominated by action sceenes with explosion after explosion you are in strobe lighting. Perhaps its worse for kids and their developing eyesight.

I agree about LCD in bright light and in the dark. Eventually there will be a technology that does it all. ;)

[Brad Martin]

Not intended to be a flame, Why waste your bux on plasma with all the new technology?

[billybob_jcv]

I have no idea whether watching a modern home theater is good or bad for one's health. But, IMHO there is a huge difference between the old B&W CRTs strobing & flickering away at whatever pitiful scan rate the first electron guns could muster, and a modern plasma panel.

Not to mention the medical science of the day had very little knowledge of the affects of scan rates on eyeballs. Geez, they couldn't decide whether "atomic power" could be used to power appliances around the house, or if it would create 80 ft tall roaches...

[howe]

[QUOTE=Brad Martin]Not intended to be a flame, Why waste your bux on plasma with all the new technology?[/QUOTE]
Ummmm....what new technology.....today?

Not a flame, but a sincere question. None of us getting any younger. Do you suggest to remain watching a 4:3 CRT until its perfect?

[cajieboy]

[QUOTE=billybob_jcv]I have no idea whether watching a modern home theater is good or bad for one's health. But, IMHO there is a huge difference between the old B&W CRTs strobing & flickering away at whatever pitiful scan rate the first electron guns could muster, and a modern plasma panel.

Not to mention the medical science of the day had very little knowledge of the affects of scan rates on eyeballs. Geez, they couldn't decide whether "atomic power" could be used to power appliances around the house, or if it would create 80 ft tall roaches...[/QUOTE]

I'm not an eye doctor, but know that I don't like to watch TV in the dark as the effects produce severe eye strain and sometimes headaches. Imagine your iris shrinking & enlarging rapidly over hours of viewing light/dark scenes in a movie. A little ambient light seems to do the trick, so this is what I use. If viewing in the dark doesn't bother you, then that's great.

The OP's budget has shrunk from money is no object to a ceiling of $5K. Rules out the Pioneer PRO-FHD1. I think you would do your father a service and convince him a 50"er is in his best interests. It's a nice compromise size for viewing both TV & Movies at 7'-10' viewing distance. You can get a great deal on a Pioneer 1130 w/media receiver right now, but my first choice would be the Fujitsu P50's.

[Halfpipetrick]

I'd bet the PQ of the Fujitsu 50" will still best the new Pioneer 1080p 50".